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Discussion Starter #1
Hello,

Looking for a pup from here and I was sent this pedigree. She said this is the pup's pedigree, but I'm not sure how that is since this one was born 2016. Unless she's telling me she has a slightly older dog for me to take. I will inquire that with her.

I haven't found anything regarding Tatum Kennels, and I want to make sure I make the right choice.

Rosita Vom Haus Tatum

This is their facebook - She no longer updates her website she said.

https://www.facebook.com/Tatum-Kennels-German-Shepherd-dogs-and-all-breed-training-159907610696246/

They moved from IN to FL so they are within visiting/picking up distance from me as well. I plan on going there next week to meet her and her puppies.
 

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If Rosita is the mother, you only have half the pedigree. She was born in December 2016. If you are buying this dog, she is 16 months old, not a puppy. If she is the dam, she’s too young for a litter. We need more information.

It’s also possible it’s a repeat breeding and Rosita is the full sibling to a new litter.
 

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Hello,

Looking for a pup from here and I was sent this pedigree. She said this is the pup's pedigree, but I'm not sure how that is since this one was born 2016. Unless she's telling me she has a slightly older dog for me to take. I will inquire that with her.

I haven't found anything regarding Tatum Kennels, and I want to make sure I make the right choice.

Rosita Vom Haus Tatum

This is their facebook - She no longer updates her website she said.

https://www.facebook.com/Tatum-Kennels-German-Shepherd-dogs-and-all-breed-training-159907610696246/

They moved from IN to FL so they are within visiting/picking up distance from me as well. I plan on going there next week to meet her and her puppies.
I'm not seeing any hip or elbow ratings on her most recent litter on her website.. maybe I just missed them? Her facebook was pretty outdated as well not just the website and I didn't see much info there at all... just mentions of "dog training" and that's it? I have never heard of this kennel, hopefully others will chime in soon... how did you find them? What do you like about them? Not saying this is the same situation but we went to check out a puppy from a breeder who originally had her business in NY and then moved to FL... turns out her program was pretty god awful and she was just trying to escape bad reviews from NY and reputation and tried starting over here in FL. Just to be on the safe side check up on her IN background. Just visiting should give you a very good idea as well, but considering its your first dog you might not know of what to look for as red flags so be careful. So far from what I've seen from this kennel I am not impressed, but I don't know much about reading pedigrees. You always want to see health testing done (DM, MDR) and hip/elbow scores. Ask her those specifics about the sire and dam.
 

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It’s also possible it’s a repeat breeding and Rosita is the full sibling to a new litter.
As much as I’d like for you guys to get a 16month old, lol, my assumption was that it’s a repeat breeding too.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
If Rosita is the mother, you only have half the pedigree. She was born in December 2016. If you are buying this dog, she is 16 months old, not a puppy. If she is the dam, she’s too young for a litter. We need more information.

It’s also possible it’s a repeat breeding and Rosita is the full sibling to a new litter.
Yup, that's my confusion too. I asked when I can call her again and ask her about it. Maybe she thought this would be a good fit for the family as she's slightly older for us. I asked her if she had the dad's pedigree and she said "Baldou is the sire. Elligator is the mom. The pedigree I sent is the pups pedigree"

She did mention there is a litter coming may 10th so...

so perhaps this is the one she'd like to give us.
 

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Find out if the 16 month old is trained and what kind of exposure she has to children. That may be the perfect solution. If you like the breeder, plan to get a puppy in about 3-4 years. By then the older dog will be completely trained, you will know more about sport training and your children will be old enough to be a part of it. I wouldn’t hesitate to ship a dog from the right litter, but overall, I prefer to meet the breeder and visit their kennel.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I'm not seeing any hip or elbow ratings on her most recent litter on her website.. maybe I just missed them? Her facebook was pretty outdated as well not just the website and I didn't see much info there at all... just mentions of "dog training" and that's it? I have never heard of this kennel, hopefully others will chime in soon... how did you find them? What do you like about them? Not saying this is the same situation but we went to check out a puppy from a breeder who originally had her business in NY and then moved to FL... turns out her program was pretty god awful and she was just trying to escape bad reviews from NY and reputation and tried starting over here in FL. Just to be on the safe side check up on her IN background. Just visiting should give you a very good idea as well, but considering its your first dog you might not know of what to look for as red flags so be careful. So far from what I've seen from this kennel I am not impressed, but I don't know much about reading pedigrees. You always want to see health testing done (DM, MDR) and hip/elbow scores.
I found them on akc marketplace when I was originally looking. She was one of the few that was non american on there and in FL.

Tatum Kennels - German Shepherd Dog Puppies For Sale

What I like about them is the willingness and friendliness of the breeder ready to answer my questions and be available for me. That goes a long way for me. But like someone not knowing a thing about cars and getting smoke blown up their you know what, this could be the same thing for me. Her dogs are $1600 and czech working line. That's considerably less than what I found, which is a good or a bad thing.... Back to my car analogy. If someone said "hey I got this great BMW for you at 70% the cost", I'd be little worried, if I knew my cars I could probably check it out further. Unfortunately I'm great with cars, and not breeders LOL

She said the pups will have 2 sets of vaccinations, wormed, microchipped, tattooed, and written health guarantee.
 

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Find out if the 16 month old is trained and what kind of exposure she has to children. That may be the perfect solution. If you like the breeder, plan to get a puppy in about 3-4 years. By then the older dog will be completely trained, you will know more about sport training and your children will be old enough to be a part of it. I wouldn’t hesitate to ship a dog from the right litter, but overall, I prefer to meet the breeder and visit their kennel.
I agree on visiting the Kennel. If I decide with the one you mentioned to me, I planned on visiting KY and checking out her Kennel... (but at that rate, I can spend 500 more and get a local dog lol)

She does know my situation with kids/work etc because I explained it to her over the phone and soon after she sent me that pedigree. I'm going to call her soon and will let you guys know.
 

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I like the idea of an older dog if that works out. Meet the breeder and the dog before you say no. You miss a lot of puppy stress when you get a 1 year old. I mean stress on you, not the dog. There is that, too.
 

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That pedigree isn’t all Czech, just so you know. It’s mostly West German. Breeders are salespeople. Most will be very friendly when they have someone on the hook. AKC marketplace is not where I would look for a breeder, especially for a working line dog. See if you can visit a local IPO club and see some dogs. Perhaps some will be from local(ish) breeders. Especially since you have young kids, you really need to do your due diligence and meet a lot of dogs in person. Meet as many as you can. Talk to their owners and get a feel for what the dog is like in everyday life. Go talk to the breeders of dogs you like at the local clubs. Doing research on the internet can be great, but you really need to see dogs in person before you make a decision on a breeder. Trust me on this. You need to see what the kennels are producing, ideally away from their home environment. This is not something to rush into. You don’t want to end up with a nervy dog that can’t function well in a family with kids.
 

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Could it be a repeat litter - same that produced that Rosita?

they did the combination , sat back, evaluated the outcome and then did a repeat.

some breeders use the PDB to visualize their pedigrees and to use the matching of sires and dams
with pedigrees -
not everyone puts all the information - titles , health checks etc on that format

looks interesting - go visit
 

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Discussion Starter #13
That pedigree isn’t all Czech, just so you know. It’s mostly West German. Breeders are salespeople. Most will be very friendly when they have someone on the hook. AKC marketplace is not where I would look for a breeder, especially for a working line dog. See if you can visit a local IPO club and see some dogs. Perhaps some will be from local(ish) breeders. Especially since you have young kids, you really need to do your due diligence and meet a lot of dogs in person. Meet as many as you can. Talk to their owners and get a feel for what the dog is like in everyday life. Go talk to the breeders of dogs you like at the local clubs. Doing research on the internet can be great, but you really need to see dogs in person before you make a decision on a breeder. Trust me on this. You need to see what the kennels are producing, ideally away from their home environment. This is not something to rush into. You don’t want to end up with a nervy dog that can’t function well in a family with kids.
Thank you.

I am doing that too. I will be heading out to a IPO Club meeting to see what they have to say. I do understand breeders are salespeople as well. This is how they make money. I'm trying to see the accomplishments of the sire/dam to even look further right now.

again, this is just research for me. I have so many more I've looked at. This one just stuck out. I also found another one in miami with good background, but then again... I'm looking at titles. Who knows anything else.

so far everyone has said these dogs will be great with kids. Def not the audience from here. lol

Besides all that though, how does that pedigree look to you?
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited)
Spoke with her, and had my wife speak with her too. This is a repeat breed. My wife really liked the breeder. She pretty much said look you don't have to buy from me, but let me inform you. Come see our kennel, see our dogs, bring your family.

Also going to see a breeder tomorrow possibly in miami. Haven't seen much reviews on him though so we will see. We still really like this lady with Tatum Kennels.

She told me it's also no all czech. she said it's german working line and czech. about half and half. one slightly more, but I can't remember which.
 

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Thank you.

I am doing that too. I will be heading out to a IPO Club meeting to see what they have to say. I do understand breeders are salespeople as well. This is how they make money. I'm trying to see the accomplishments of the sire/dam to even look further right now.

again, this is just research for me. I have so many more I've looked at. This one just stuck out. I also found another one in miami with good background, but then again... I'm looking at titles. Who knows anything else.

so far everyone has said these dogs will be great with kids. Def not the audience from here. lol

Besides all that though, how does that pedigree look to you?
Oh I am certainly no expert in reading pedigrees. I’ll leave deciphering this pedigree to people who know far more than I do! I’m only offering advice as someone who owns one really nervy WL dog, who absolutely wouldn’t work in a house with children, as well as a fantastically stable WL bitch, who could fit in anywhere and do anything as long as her needs were met. I knew more when adding my girl to the fold, mostly from having to seek out IPO trainers for my boy to help me work around his weak nerves, reactivity and fear aggression. I didn’t do all the leg work I should have when I bought my boy, and relied too heavily on input from people who really didn’t do much with their dogs away from home. Choose carefully!
 

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Could it be a repeat litter - same that produced that Rosita?

they did the combination , sat back, evaluated the outcome and then did a repeat.

some breeders use the PDB to visualize their pedigrees and to use the matching of sires and dams
with pedigrees -
not everyone puts all the information - titles , health checks etc on that format

looks interesting - go visit
I agree!
 

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I found them on akc marketplace when I was originally looking. She was one of the few that was non american on there and in FL.

Tatum Kennels - German Shepherd Dog Puppies For Sale

What I like about them is the willingness and friendliness of the breeder ready to answer my questions and be available for me. That goes a long way for me. But like someone not knowing a thing about cars and getting smoke blown up their you know what, this could be the same thing for me. Her dogs are $1600 and czech working line. That's considerably less than what I found, which is a good or a bad thing.... Back to my car analogy. If someone said "hey I got this great BMW for you at 70% the cost", I'd be little worried, if I knew my cars I could probably check it out further. Unfortunately I'm great with cars, and not breeders LOL

She said the pups will have 2 sets of vaccinations, wormed, microchipped, tattooed, and written health guarantee.
The price is in line with the fact that there are quite a few untitled dogs in the pedigree, especially along the bottom line (female family) given that the hips, elbows and DM testing is done....the pedigree on the female family goes back to an IN breeder who did alot of West German working dogs....

the "2 vaccinations" would worry me....unless she means the pup will have been vaccinated for Parvo and Parainfluenza at close to 8 weeks....doing a multi vax at 6 and 8 weeks is over kill and can affect the long term health of the immune system.....

And yes - it is good that the breeder is willing to educate you....looks like she has been in the breed a while given the female line going back with her kennel name several generations.

Good luck.


Lee
 
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