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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hi yall,
Things have been going well with Gandalf, after his ER visit for whatever reason he has had lots of energy again and his appetite is back (could it have been the B12 shot?). We've been going for runs instead of hikes in the woods, right now we're running 4 miles a day on top of our daily walks, I'm letting him set the pace and distance. As soon as he starts to lag behind we head back home. Also been taking rest days for recovery . However, since our daily runs he has been losing weight and is starting to look too thin to me and hes acting hungry all the time. I'd like to put some more meat on him but as soon as I up his food his stools get loose. I want to start logging more miles, and he has been pushing it too. Is there any high calorie foods I can give him (sensitive stomach, beef products have been my go to...) ? He won't touch an egg anymore. I've tried hard boiled, soft boiled, raw, scrambled, etc. he doesn't like them anymore. I've also started incorporating a little high calorie kibble into his meals but he can only handle 3/4 of a cup, as soon as I up it anymore than that we get loose stools again. Sensitives for him are chicken, all fish & fish products, sweet potatoes, venison, pork, few other things I can't remember right now... He is still getting his instinct raw beef for the rest of his meals.
Thanks!
 

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What about a high fat puppy supplement like this?
https://www.chewy.com/k9-power-puppy-gold-nutritional/dp/145680


I'm not sure if it has anything he is sensitive to in it. I didn't see any chicken products in it. A lot of the high fat supplements I looked at on chewy has some kind of fish or chicken products in it.
 

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Sheba likes roast pork; its quite high in calories, even more than beef. (a cup of chopped-up pork is about 365 calories) We too are always trying to get Sheba to eat enough, as she just does not get excited about food like other dogs do. So when the pork roasts go on sale we load up our freezer. We also keep a large supply of cooked beef patties in the deep freeze, as this too is a quick-and-easy way to add some much-needed calories... 3 medium-sized burger patties are about 510 calories. Wieners are a tasty snack, at about 90 calories each, and if/when Sheba goes completely off her food, there's always the canned corn beef quick-fix, which has a whopping 780 cals per small can! Sure, in a perfect world our doggies would be good with just kibble/canned, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do!

Glen
Focus On Newfoundland
 

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No milk, pork or corn unfortunately ..
Just to clarify, when I wrote "canned corn beef" I meant to write "canned corned beef"; it has no actual corn in it, but is loaded with calories, and on more than one occasion has saved Sheba from fading away to nothing!

Glen
Focus On Newfoundland
 

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My boy has a similar issue. Once tracking and dock diving season starts, he tends to turn into a rack of ribs. Too much fat or too much food over all will give him loose stools.

Here is my approach for what it's worth. I don't do anything sudden. When I see him looking skinny like that it's hard not to want to throw him an extra serving or topper for some calories. But I've learned that with him I have to aim for the gradual long term approach. I make adjustments more slowly in smaller increments over time. So I keep an overview in my head that he was really active this week and I'm trying to give him a little extra this week vs. today.

It seems to work for him. PLus he seems to have a daily/meal cutoff of about how much he is hungry for and then he is done. Maybe he sort of intuitively knows too big a meal will make him sick, I don't know. So I never try to give him tasty stuff to encourage him to eat more because that always comes back to bite us. When he gets thin, he gets hungry and he cleans his bowl, and I just keep adding a LITTLE bit extra until it all balances out.

He had to go to the vet today for a red eye and I found out he gained back 2 lbs he lost when dock season started this year so I'm happy. He's honestly a bit more thin than I would like but at 85 lb he looks okay. He was at 83 and he looked thin. Even at 85 I see his ribs more than I like to but he's alright. the other thing I decided is better for him to be leaner than I like but with healthy stools. The weight he's ht now is not a health problem but chronic loose stools are.

And lastly, I do believe any athletic endeavor depends on the health of the dog---so if Gandalf's stomach problems keep him from maintaining at this level of activity, then I'd reduce his activity some.

My dog isn't super high energy so some days if he tracks or swims he doesn't go for a walk that day and he's fine with that and less calories out overall.
 

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Ooh gotcha I have never heard of either lol! What all is in it? Thanks for the help ?!
It's just cured beef in a can. It has salt added to it, so not something to feed daily, but it has certainly helped Sheba when she has gone completely off her food.

Glen
Focus On Newfoundland


 

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I had a similar issue with mine when he was growing. I was feeding 6-7 cups of food, he was still very thin. And he was getting lose stools. I changed to Dr. Tim's Momentum. Went down to I think 5 cups, and as he has gotten older have reduced more. I think it is one of the best foods out there. Have not had any issues with it. Each cup delivers 588 kcals of high quality animal protein. I think its 93% animal protein. And, you can call/email and talk to Dr. Tim himself. Can you do that with other companies :)
 

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Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
I had a similar issue with mine when he was growing. I was feeding 6-7 cups of food, he was still very thin. And he was getting lose stools. I changed to Dr. Tim's Momentum. Went down to I think 5 cups, and as he has gotten older have reduced more. I think it is one of the best foods out there. Have not had any issues with it. Each cup delivers 588 kcals of high quality animal protein. I think its 93% animal protein. And, you can call/email and talk to Dr. Tim himself. Can you do that with other companies :)
Glad it worked for you but it wouldnt for us.. chicken meal is the #1 ingredient. I've seen much better foods honestly overall for that price. We're really having a hard time finding something high calorie that he isn't allergic to. So far he can only tolerate a 3/4 cup of Zignature Kangroo protein. Not the best food in my opinion but our only option right now if we want to go cheap (well cheaper than commercial raw anyways)... he gets 2lbs of raw beef daily as well. I've tried upping his raw beef and loose stools still result.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
It's just cured beef in a can. It has salt added to it, so not something to feed daily, but it has certainly helped Sheba when she has gone completely off her food.

Glen
Focus On Newfoundland


Great idea! I wish we could find something for every day though. Right now we are running 4 miles a day and walking 2 miles, eventually I'd like to get back to running 10 miles X 5 days a week. He is going to need extra fuel every day...
 

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Discussion Starter #12
How many extra calories does a shepherd burn anyways running? Maybe i'm over thinking and over feeding, I mean he is much more efficient at running than me.
 

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A pretty simple solution that you probably won't like is to neuter him. Neutered males burn a lot fewer calories. Not saying it's something you want to do... but if keeping weight on is truly a struggle, it's something you may want to think about.
 

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Does he handle olive oil or coconut oil well?
 

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How about making him some meatballs? Can he eat oats and eggs?



If so, when I have skinny foster dogs, they get these as treats:


9 parts hamburger, 1 part minced organ meat (beef liver, kidney, etc.), several eggs (I food process the shells too and throw them in), organic rolled oats, and maybe wheat germ and molasses (not necessary -- leave out if allergic). Bake them around 400 covered and check at 20 min (time depends on how big they are). Drain off the fat, cool, and store a few in the fridge, and freeze the rest.


My food allergy dog who cannot eat chicken can eat eggs just fine. They're not the same protein.
 

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Goat cheese, sheep milk cheeses,almond butter or peanut butter (all natural no sugar types). Peanuts are legumes so if peas/legumes are a no go peanut butter may be a problem too. Have you tried hiding raw scrambled egg in a raw ground beef meatball? That some times works for me. I've also made beef pup loaf. (Ground beef, eggs, little spinach, shredded carrot, garlic) Mix it up and bake (you can serve raw, if you cook the carrots first, in meatball form). Add organ meat and it's extra enticing.
 

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Combine all of the ingredients, roll into 1-inch balls and feed them raw! Portions can be frozen for future use, as well.

Grain-free Satin Balls
10 pounds of ground beef
1 large tub of 4% fat cottage cheese
500g of cream cheese
1 1/4 cup olive oil
1 1/2 cup of unsulphured molasses
10 raw eggs with the shells
10 envelopes of unflavored gelatin
A pinch of salt
 

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I would be really careful with this. Some of these internet satin ball recipes like this are an invitation to pancreatitis -- the huge amount of added oil will trigger it in the wrong dog. The cheese is also a dicey idea with an allergy dog -- I'd avoid lactose.

My meat balls evolved from ditching all the junk out of these common satin ball recipes. I would just include ingredients that have good nutrition and ditch the ones that are junk when making things like this.

Combine all of the ingredients, roll into 1-inch balls and feed them raw! Portions can be frozen for future use, as well.

Grain-free Satin Balls
10 pounds of ground beef
1 large tub of 4% fat cottage cheese
500g of cream cheese
1 1/4 cup olive oil
1 1/2 cup of unsulphured molasses
10 raw eggs with the shells
10 envelopes of unflavored gelatin
A pinch of salt
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Thank you all for the recipes, he's going to get spoiled during running season with me making him meat balls lol. I like your idea cowboysgirl, G sounds just like your guy. I think I'll increase his food slower and maybe try to give him some higher cal treats like the meat balls. I'll have to modify some things since he's allergic to milk, cheese, oats among other things. I think I can get him to eat the eggs if I mix it up in the meat real good. I've never tried giving him olive oil, but he does get safflower oil, only a tsp a day. Anymore and he gets diarrhea. His blood results also pointed towards pancreatic issues in the future so I'm trying to avoid that.
 

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the attempt to find a solution is so one sided .

I agree with the satin balls comment made by Magwart ---

never mind recipes and calories

this dog is has many issues - inherent or acquired? "pick your poison?"

the picture of the dog on page one of this thread shows a dog that is totally knackered.
that is not a content relaxed look -
he has had issue after issue -- he needs , not a day off , but a recovery period which
could be s long time

you said that you run for 4 miles , and turn back when the dog starts to lag.

Too late.
He is going back to home base on fumes, beyond his "spare capacity'.
That is a physiological stress . Continued stress will impair recovery. His ER episode is
very recent , temporarily and necessary healing time .

The point at which he starts lagging is probably within the same distance . You know when that is.
So at the point of one half or less of that distance where the dog lags - you turn around and go home.

Provide the dog with a diet that gives him the tools to recover and get some immune health .
Weight and condition will follow.
There is no need for high calorie junk foods . He needs nutrient dense clean food and support in the digestive
enyzmes and probiotic category .

The energy he needs is at the cellular level .
 
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