[PDXDeutschhund]

We went to the vet yesterday and he mentioned that he saw something concerning about Dutch's hips. He felt around and he didn't feel the hips popping, but he's still concerned.

Dutch just hit 17 weeks.

I took a couple videos of Dutch at the dog park today. Here's one of him bunny hopping.

Here's a video of him jogging.

Just hoping to get some input from you experienced owners. I just don't have any experience to draw from on this. Does anything look wrong? I took other video if you need more footage.

Thanks guys.... I went from worrying about the ears going up to worrying about his hips

 

[ShenzisMom]

Maybe I'm seeing this all wrong but in the first video it looks like hes not hopping on the pads of his feet but on his hocks? When the Airedale Shenzi plays with runs this way he is not on his hocks.

 

[selzer]

Stop worrying. Who by worrying can add a day to their lives? -- or something like that.

Hip Dysplasia can ONLY be diagnosed by x-ray. I would NOT spend the money on them now. If your puppy was limping or not playing, that would be a different story. That is not happening.

Puppies get excited and sometime bound. It does NOT mean they have hip dysplasia.

There ARE things you can do to improve your chances that hips will not be a problem:

1. Do not spay him until after the growth plates have closed.
2. Do not supplement with extra calcium.
3. Do not feed puppy food, feed premium adult food, or feed a large breed puppy food, or feed raw.
4. Supplement with vitamin C,
5. Let your puppy BE a puppy, let him run, jump, play all he wants. DO NOT force him to bicycle, jog, run, jump, etc.
6. Do not let your puppy become overweight. Ensure that you can see a waistline from both the side and the top. At seventeen weeks, he can still have some puppy fluffyness, but by six or eight months, keep him trim.

Don't worry about it. My vet does not POP my puppies' hips.

Lastly, even if the pup Does have HD, it is NOT a death sentence. It MAY mean an operation. It may NEVER show any symptoms.

 

[Elaine]

Best guess is that there is nothing wrong with his hips, but he does seem over angulated and somewhat down in the hocks. At this point, I wouldn't worry about it as he's still young and should grow out of most of that.

 

[selzer]

I read something yesterday about dogs being down in pastern sometimes are being fed too much protein, and going lower on protein helps clear it up.

What are you feeding your pup, just curious.

 

[PDXDeutschhund]

Stop worrying. Who by worrying can add a day to their lives? -- or something like that.

Hip Dysplasia can ONLY be diagnosed by x-ray. I would NOT spend the money on them now. If your puppy was limping or not playing, that would be a different story. That is not happening.

Puppies get excited and sometime bound. It does NOT mean they have hip dysplasia.

There ARE things you can do to improve your chances that hips will not be a problem:

1. Do not spay him until after the growth plates have closed.
2. Do not supplement with extra calcium.
3. Do not feed puppy food, feed premium adult food, or feed a large breed puppy food, or feed raw.
4. Supplement with vitamin C,
5. Let your puppy BE a puppy, let him run, jump, play all he wants. DO NOT force him to bicycle, jog, run, jump, etc.
6. Do not let your puppy become overweight. Ensure that you can see a waistline from both the side and the top. At seventeen weeks, he can still have some puppy fluffyness, but by six or eight months, keep him trim.

Don't worry about it. My vet does not POP my puppies' hips.

Lastly, even if the pup Does have HD, it is NOT a death sentence. It MAY mean an operation. It may NEVER show any symptoms.

I wasn't worried until the vet said something. Now I can't help it.

I thought I saw a little limping in his walk towards the end of his playing tonight. I'm just hoping some of you could look at the tapes and see if you see anything irregular.

 

[Elaine]

Seriously, this does NOT look like it's your puppy's hips.

 

[PDXDeutschhund]

I read something yesterday about dogs being down in pastern sometimes are being fed too much protein, and going lower on protein helps clear it up.

What are you feeding your pup, just curious.

I was feeding large breed Orijen until about a month ago. We switched him to Nature's Logic at that point, but he's had some stomach issue for the past week or so, so we've had him on chicken and rice for the past week.

He also gets one meal of Nature's Variety raw food per day, but we've stopped that as well until we've got his GI clear.

 

[Elaine]

Some forms of malnutrition can cause this, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. This is the way some puppies are born and that's just the way they are.

Your vet was right that something was structurally wrong with your puppy, but as they don't see downed pasterns very often, their first thought is going to be the hips. The problem comes in when the mind is willing, but the body just can't keep up as things aren't aligned the way they should be.

I have seen much worse cases than this and most of them do improve to some degree with time. What you should do is look at the parents to see how angulated they are and that could give you a better idea of where your pup should end up when grown.

Because of this problem, this is a pup that should not have any sustained exercise, like jogging or longer walks, or jumping as it would be very hard on the lower legs due to the over flexion of the joints until/unless he grows out of it. Lots of off leash frolicking and frequent slower walks are better options.

 

[PDXDeutschhund]

Here is a video of Dutch playing around some more

 

[PDXDeutschhund]

and here is him walking around

 

[Lucy Dog]

As of right now, he just looks like a goofy puppy. They're all goofy and awkward at that age.

Selzer gave some good advice in her earlier post. I wouldn't worry too much right now because there's nothing you can really do unless he's in some kind of obvious discomfort and even then it might not be HD.

If he's still running, jumping, and isn't showing any kinds of pain, just enjoy him and his goofy puppy stages.

 

[PDXDeutschhund]

Some forms of malnutrition can cause this, but that doesn't seem to be the case here. This is the way some puppies are born and that's just the way they are.

Your vet was right that something was structurally wrong with your puppy, but as they don't see downed pasterns very often, their first thought is going to be the hips. The problem comes in when the mind is willing, but the body just can't keep up as things aren't aligned the way they should be.

I have seen much worse cases than this and most of them do improve to some degree with time. What you should do is look at the parents to see how angulated they are and that could give you a better idea of where your pup should end up when grown.

Because of this problem, this is a pup that should not have any sustained exercise, like jogging or longer walks, or jumping as it would be very hard on the lower legs due to the over flexion of the joints until/unless he grows out of it. Lots of off leash frolicking and frequent slower walks are better options.

Ugh... so is this something we caused? Did we put him on too much protein? I'm just feeling sick to my stomach. The kibble he was eating from about November 10th until about a week ago has a crude protein level of about 36%. I'm not sure what the large breed puppy protein level was, but this site says he should be getting around 21%.

Downed pasterns and the German Shepherd puppy

We will reduce his exercise and change his diet however we need to. I just feel awful.

 

[JakodaCD OA]

do not feel awful, this is not your fault by any means..

I see a sloppy puppy, and MOST puppies are sloppy and clutzy, He is in my opinion, a little down in his pasterns and hocks, but again he's a puppy. He looks otherwise to be a very happy puppy and in good health.

Vets, what can I say? ALOT of them see a gsd puppy and immediately say "bad hips" or "you got hip problems".. Don't take everything a vet says as gospel.

I do agree with feeding adult food, and I do agree with limiting his jumping. He's a BIG puppy, and so insides are growing faster than the outside

Don't stress over it, when the time comes, xray him and then you'll get a better picture of what's going on,,but honestly I see NO hip problems at all at this stage

 

[JeanKBBMMMAAN]

1. He looks like an extremely sweet puppy and I love his deep rich colors.
2. I hope they have something to cut collars wherever these videos are in case the dogs get caught.
3. Agree that this is the floopy floppy pasterns and to look at the parents

Sadly, my vets are used to seeing dogs that are built like this and know what they are seeing (and do not like it) when I bring a foster in with this set up.

ETA - don't feel awful! You didn't give birth to him (I am assuming ). I had a foster puppy like this and fed a Pinnacle brand food, gave him some selenium (check with a vet), let him run in the yard on soft grass (lucky it was spring) and not much on leash except socialization outings and things strengthened up. You could also look into a vet rehab/Physical therapy type place where the vets see these dogs when they get old - and may have some other great tips for them while they are young.

 

[bocron]

Is he American showlines? If so, that would explain some of it, they are usually very loosey-goosey movement wise when young. Also, from what I can tell he looks a bit heavier than I would have him at that age.

On a side note, what dog park is that? Very cool.

 

[Castlemaid]

Your pup looks fine and normal. Vet is being over-cautious, and is probably not used to seeing the different movement of a GSD.

- a lot of pups have loose joints and ligaments at this stage - he most likely will grow out of it.

- keep up with normal excercise and play sessions to help the ligaments tighten up - Elaine wasn't saying to cut down on excercise, but to avoid extended running and walking and jumping - allowing lots off-leash play and lots of shorter walks (instead of extended walks) will help.

- Vets are almost programmed to "see" hip displasia in goofy, uncoordinated puppies. I had a vet say to me about a 9 week old puppy after watching him run up and down the clinic's hallway: "Well, he looks good . . . for now." Wow! what a negative and depressing attitude (pup turned out just fine hip-wise).

- Stop worrying and enjoy your boy - lucky him to have such a nice play group and such caring owners!

 

[doggiedad]

Dutch

i'm far from a pro but Dutch looks ok to me. my dog really
bunny hopped. when he ran both of his hind legs were together.
i spoke with the breeder and she told he doesn't know how
to run yet and she mentioned muscle memory. i spoke
with other breeders and they told me the same thing.
i took my dog to the Vet for x-rays. the Vet took a look at him
and said "he doesn't need x-rays". he knew there was nothing wrong with
him. i insisted on the x-rays. they came back negative. as time went on
my dog stopped bunny hopping. i started to notice power in his running
when he was 1.5 yrs old. it doesn't hurt to have the x-rays. the Vet
i used didn't sedate my pup for x-rays. two people held him.
good luck and i trust all will turn out well.

 

[Elaine]

Ugh... so is this something we caused?

No! You had nothing to do with this; your puppy was born this way as are a lot of other puppies. This is certainly not desirable, but also it's definitely not the end of the world. This is a fairly common problem and this isn't a bad case of it either.

As for exercise, you need to reduce any extended exercise as it's hard on those lower joints and you may notice him getting tired and sore if he overdoes it. If he does get tired or sore, be sure to stop and let him rest before letting him play more.

Did you get a look at the parents yet? Do you have a link to their website?

Remember, your puppy should improve with age and I wouldn't stress about this at all as the only thing it's going to affect is limiting exercise.

 

[PDXDeutschhund]

Okay... let me see if I can answer some of the questions.

He is American showlines from the father's side. I'll have to ask the breeder for some pictures. She doesn't have a website.

Dogpark is called Inbark. There's actually two real nice indoor dogparks around my area. Inbark is actually the smaller of the two.

Dutch just weighed in at 36 lbs at 17 weeks. Is that too much?

He's a healthy mess right now... we've been to the vet twice in the last week. First it was diarrhea and sneezing.... now it's red bumps all over the inside of his hind legs and his belly that are itchy and driving him nuts. The diarrhea has stopped, and his poop is solid, but the bumps aren't going away. Vet has us on antibiotics but I'm not seeing a difference. Actually now he has a huge bump on his belly. We've seen one of these before. It had to be lanced and drained.

We still have him on the chicken and rice because I'm not sure what kibble to put him on anymore. He doesn't like the taste of the Orijen large breed. I suspect he's allergic to something, but I'm not sure what. Could have been the Nature's Logic... could have been the Nature's Variety raw food.

He's also been hacking for about a week. I asked the vet about it, but he wasn't sure if it was a mild case of kennel cough, or if it was just a puppy cold.

I just want Dutch to be healthy.