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That looks almost exactly like how my dog would react to some other dogs. For Ole it ended up being a chain of: excitement -> frustration -> inability to communicate with the other dog -> Other dog responding negatively (didn't want to engage in rough play) -> my dog lashing out.

The first thing that comes to mind is how calmly he plays fetch. Maybe he just a calm dog :) I on the other hand like to 'amp up' my dogs when playing tug, fetch, flirt-pole, etc. The idea is to teach pup there is an ebb and flow to energy levels. Some time fun and high energy is appropriate. Some time calm is appropriate.

It is similar to the way I dealt with the land shark issue. I used a flirt-pole. It didn't take long for pup to figure out that I was not trying to squash his natural instinct to chase and chew.... Chasing and chewing were encouraged, as long as I set the time and place.

It might seem like it is approaching the issues sideways... and it is. At least for us, things like this worked.
 

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Discussion Starter #102 (Edited)
Constructive criticism. You issue multiple commands at the same time and your timing is not so good. We all have been there. Try practicing your commands without your dog. Once you feel that you got the hang of it, then add the dog back in.

The one thing that stood out to me is your dog’s lack of enthusiasm to play ball with you. I would knock off the obedience while playing ball for now and concentrate on just having fun and getting him engaged to play with you. I suspect he finds obedience with you boring. This can have a negative impact on your relationship. Lighten up on the quantity of training while focusing on the quality.
He did a few retrives before but having him sit and wait killed his enthusiasm. It was actually our first time playing that , so I kinda killed his drive by making him hit and wait. I think he was unsure big it was ok for him to get the ball and releasing him.

It didn't help I was avoided talking or getting excited just because I was filming and didn't want it on there.

Finn's hard to get motivated, he takes effort to fire him. He's like the with everyone. In lockdown he went to puppy classes/daycare the trainer's couldn't work him out. Not interested in them, not interested in other puppies.

Evie is completely different, She's like a race car ready to go.

Yeah you're right about timing and multiple commands. A lot if them time I just say stuff without really thinking lol.

Definitely need to improve that.
 

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Discussion Starter #103 (Edited)
That looks almost exactly like how my dog would react to some other dogs. For Ole it ended up being a chain of: excitement -> frustration -> inability to communicate with the other dog -> Other dog responding negatively (didn't want to engage in rough play) -> my dog lashing out.

The first thing that comes to mind is how calmly he plays fetch. Maybe he just a calm dog :) I on the other hand like to 'amp up' my dogs when playing tug, fetch, flirt-pole, etc. The idea is to teach pup there is an ebb and flow to energy levels. Some time fun and high energy is appropriate. Some time calm is appropriate.

It is similar to the way I dealt with the land shark issue. I used a flirt-pole. It didn't take long for pup to figure out that I was not trying to squash his natural instinct to chase and chew.... Chasing and chewing were encouraged, as long as I set the time and place.

It might seem like it is approaching the issues sideways... and it is. At least for us, things like this worked.
I didn't want him amped up during that game of fetch. We had already played the excited version.

I wanted to slow him down. Today was the first time teaching him to sit and stay at my heel and not move when I threw the ball. He was to only go when I threw the ball.

To get this I played a regular game , wore him out and then having to sit , stay not move , then retieive, kinda killed his drive.

I kinda wanted him in that state as he could learn to stay and not be too enthusiastic about jumping the gun .

I've not tried a flirt poll, I did try to get him into tug but he's not that interested.

What I have is a boomer ball he goes mental for it amps him up in an instant. So that's probably good to use.
 

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Nothing about any of that says aggression to me.

I hear you exasperated and powerless. You are emotional and you feel weak. He's being a punk and he has your number.

He's totally checked out on the walk. No engagement with you. His idea of fun doesn't involve you. Someone mentioned backing off OB (probably MAWL but I'm too lazy to look :) ) and I agree. Lay off OB until you can make it fun.

I would immediately stop letting them play together outside. Inside is ok but low key. Stop it if they get rowdy. This dog needs you to be the fun, interesting thing in his life.

Do you play tug? I suggest you start. You need to get this dog engaged with you and that means you need to be fun. There are rules. The dog must only bite the tug when told. He must let go when told. He must bring it back when you let go or throw it. If you don't have all this in your repertoire, I recommend the Michael Ellis tug DVD.

ETA: it would be super helpful if you had a third party video so we could really see what's going on.

EATA: this is not a difficult fix for a trainer. If you want me to speak with them, PM me and I'll give you contact info.
 

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Discussion Starter #105
Nothing about any of that says aggression to me.

I hear you exasperated and powerless. You are emotional and you feel weak. He's being a punk and he has your number.

He's totally checked out on the walk. No engagement with you. His idea of fun doesn't involve you. Someone mentioned backing off OB (probably MAWL but I'm too lazy to look :) ) and I agree. Lay off OB until you can make it fun.

I would immediately stop letting them play together outside. Inside is ok but low key. Stop it if they get rowdy. This dog needs you to be the fun, interesting thing in his life.

Do you play tug? I suggest you start. You need to get this dog engaged with you and that means you need to be fun. There are rules. The dog must only bite the tug when told. He must let go when told. He must bring it back when you let go or throw it. If you don't have all this in your repertoire, I recommend the Michael Ellis tug DVD.
haha yeah you're right , It's been going on a while now and it's really worn me down, that's for sure. I just feels like , here we go again , kinda killed my enthusiasm and confidence in being able to get in into check. I've been looking for help for a while and been getting advice like "give him chicken "or "make sure he wears a harness so he doesn't hurt himself when he attacks her" .

I definitely need to come at it with a fresh perspective. Which I think everyone on this forum is giving me.

He's never been naturally interested in tug. Although I sure I could get him interested in it, if it's needed.

When you mean immediately stop them playing outside, do you mean just walks together but no playing ? Or stop walks together?
 

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haha yeah you're right , It's been going on a while now and it's really worn me down, that's for sure. I just feels like , here we go again , kinda killed my enthusiasm and confidence in being able to get in into check. I've been looking for help for a while and been getting advice like "give him chicken "or "make sure he wears a harness so he doesn't hurt himself when he attacks her" .

I definitely need to come at it with a fresh perspective. Which I think everyone on this forum is giving me.

He's never been naturally interested in tug. Although I sure I could get him interested in it, if it's needed.
Bring him to my house for 2 days ;)

I get it! I really do. It can be exhausting when you hit a wall. I know you are trying super hard to just do the right thing.

It's not about chicken, or tug, or anything except that dog having fun and engaging with you. Chicken and tug are tools. A potential means to an end. I suggested tug because it allows the dog to get really physical with you, and most GSDs really like that.

You need currency with the dog. You have to have fun with him. It needs to be mutually beneficial. If that means crochet, than so be it. Just find some way to have fun and reward him for being a good boy.
 

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I'm such a double poster...


Did you see the trainers with him? Were they all squeaky voice cartoon animated goober with him?
 
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Discussion Starter #108
I'm such a double poster...


Did you see the trainers with him? Were they all squeaky voice cartoon animated goober with him?
It was in lockdown so the government rules didn't allow us to be there. They would post videos of what he did that day.

Yeah. They were exactly like that but Finn didn't get excited by them. He just mainly just ignored them.
 

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+1 to tug.

It took my boy a while to learn to love it. We started with a basket of toys of different shapes and textures. At first, I had to let pup win all the time. We didn't work on 'drop' at all for the first couple of weeks. Trying to get him to drop would kill his enthusiasm.

From a basket of toys, we transitioned to 'two tug'. After pup 'won' I would start waving the other tug around like a crazy person. Pup had to figure out that I was the source of the fun. On its own, a tug just sits there like a dead squirrel.

From 'two tug' we switched to single tug with a drop command. When I said 'drop' I would make the tug go dead by bracing my hand against my knee. The moment, pup released his grip on the tug, I, and the tug, would spring back to life.

It was a gradual process that evolved from playing to engaging.

As a newbie with poor timing, this took us a couple of weeks to learn. It looks like magic when an experienced handler with skill does it!

The two biggest takeaway I found were:
1. Pup looked to me for fun -- what others are calling engagement.
2. No matter how amped up pup was he learn that the only way the game would restart would be to listen to me and drop the tug.
 

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Discussion Starter #112
Bring him to my house for 2 days ;)

I get it! I really do. It can be exhausting when you hit a wall. I know you are trying super hard to just do the right thing.

It's not about chicken, or tug, or anything except that dog having fun and engaging with you. Chicken and tug are tools. A potential means to an end. I suggested tug because it allows the dog to get really physical with you, and most GSDs really like that.

You need currency with the dog. You have to have fun with him. It needs to be mutually beneficial. If that means crochet, than so be it. Just find some way to have fun and reward him for being a good boy.
Ball is his thing at the moment. To be honest I was racking my brain in ways I could get him really excited and loads of drive. I just can't work him out.

It seems like he doesn't have much enthusiasm for anything but it's obviously there (you see it when he attacks my older dog). I kinda settled on ball because he likes it the most.

But haven't been able to find something he's super crazy. I probably just gave up on tug to easy and I was probably too eager to teach drop.
 

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I think you have gotten plenty of good answers. This is a very simple fix in the short term, and a couple long term changes would really help you out. You could try a ball on a rope or string, that is what I started with to get my dog into playing tug. I like to reach a certain level of enthusiasm in the game before I start adding rules so that the dog doesn't check out.
 

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Discussion Starter #114
I think you have gotten plenty of good answers. This is a very simple fix in the short term, and a couple long term changes would really help you out. You could try a ball on a rope or string, that is what I started with to get my dog into playing tug. I like to reach a certain level of enthusiasm in the game before I start adding rules so that the dog doesn't check out.
I didn't even realise I was going wrong here. I've been adding rules immediately on everything!
 

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He starts to talk about it at the end of that video, but one of the ways to build interest in playing tug is chase. You can try to run around and get add lots of movement to the toy to get him interested.
 

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Ball is his thing at the moment. To be honest I was racking my brain in ways I could get him really excited and loads of drive. I just can't work him out.

It seems like he doesn't have much enthusiasm for anything but it's obviously there (you see it when he attacks my older dog). I kinda settled on ball because he likes it the most.

But haven't been able to find something he's super crazy. I probably just gave up on tug to easy and I was probably too eager to teach drop.
What? Why are you looking to get him really excited with loads of drive? That is what is happening when he harasses your other dog and what brings you here in the first place.

I missed some of the videos and went back and watched them. It is hard to watch them on a cell phone but you said that your boy body slams your girl and she gets up, dusts herself off and all is good. No, that needs to stop righr now. He WILL hurt her even in play especially with body slamming. Correct that now. If you can't call him off when you see it about to happen, then leash him up and fun and games are over. Have you taught him the meaning of No or Leave it? Do it ASAP and start using it.

The main thing I see in the play videos is a dog that has not had proper training. Get this book, you can get it on ebook. Go back to square one and start all over. You have tried to train this dog to the best of your ability but you just don't know how.


In the meantime, no more rough play. In your situation, that means if BOTH dogs aren't lying down playing like in the one video, then they don't play... and enforce it. Your boy will only get bigger and stronger. Stop it now.

Find something that your dog enjoys. Look up Stonnie Dennis and adventure training on YouTube. Start building a relationship with your dog.
 

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Just as a reference in a playing to training scenario, I can recall Valor out of a play fight with another dog and he will instantly respond. If his willingness to respond to me was less than the other dog, he wouldn't be playing with the other dog.

With good behavior and training comes the freedom to play with other dogs. Until you have that kind of relationship, he should be playing with you.
 
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Yeah. Thing is with the corrections my girlfriend doesn't like it. Plus people around here are really against giving corrections.

Few months back I had with women shouting in the street i was abusing my dog. It turned into a big argument. It was ridiculous. At the time Finn was actually walking nicely, we were walking on the pavement next to the road, it wasn't bad but Finn was getting a little bit away from my left heel and was just a tiny bit too close to the road than I would have liked.

I gave him the tiniest little correction just to get him back close to my leg. This Car slammed on its brakes, women got out her car , blocking the road, screaming and shouting , traffic starting to back up.

It's stupid be a lot of people see corrections as dog abuse and act like but jobs. Seen it a few times.
Well, this isn't going to help you much then in the advice I'm going to give you.
Saying no, no, nope quietly over and over again as corrections will do nothing zero zilch to chance the situation. Those aren't corrections, he's not paying attention, he's still ignoring you. You sound like you're giving him a suggestion, you're asking. you're begging.

This is a great dog that has decided that he's in control now. I think you know what a fair but decisive correction is but because your girlfriend "doesn't like it" and some busy body slammed on her brakes, you're afraid to help your dog.
 
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