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Discussion Starter #1
My puppy is slightly more than 9 weeks. He is a charm so far. We are working on him doing his business outside but living inside, and so far he is really good. His breeder was giving him Proplan Large Breed puppy (he is a fan of that and Nupec), he comes from a really small litter.

He is a charm of a puppy, but again, he was fed with Proplan and we wanted to change that. We live in Mexico, there is only one Petco in our state, and it opened last year. Other than that, we would not have much of a choice. We started making the change, mixing his food, thinking it would take a week as the lady at Petco told us. We decided for Blue Buffalo Large Breed Puppy, since the price is not as high as others, and they will have grain free options for his adult life. Anyway, he has not taken the change in a good light, his stools are not good, they are loose. His vet is giving him probiotics to help him out. But his vet is advising me to go back to Proplan (he sells it), claiming that grains such as yellow corn are not bad for dogs. He is an old school vet and freaked out when I suggested Raw food for later in his life.

Proplan has yellow corn, and gluten, and I believe by-products flour as well. And 7.5% ashes. His stools with it smell as bad as the kibble itself. But I don't want him to lose weight or something, so if he can deal with such food I might have to go back. What do you guys think we should do? Will it be good enough to continue the transition to Blue Buffalo even slower? Or should we go back to Pro Plan and wait till we make the change in his diet when he is older? Or should we stick to Pro Plan and then move to a different brand?

Our local Petco also has Merrick but their puppy formula is for all breeds and grain free, I don't know if Grain free options are good for puppies that young. They also have as options Royal Canin, Instinct, Whole Earth farms, and Hills Science Diet, also Literatto and Natural Gourmet (I believe these two are not in the US). We don't have Taste of The Wild. We did not know kibble was this complicated when we had our other dogs in the past, it was not something people regularly talked about, but now, just like with the food we eat we pay more attention to what the dog eats.
Also, another question I have is, since he did not have many siblings... Should we socialize him with other dogs already? Not like in the park or anything out there, but you know take him to a friend's house who has a healthy and vaccinated dog?
 

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Since your puppy is having loose stools on Blue Buffalo, I would suggest going back to the ProPlan which the breeder was feeding him. Then after a month when he's settled in his new home and the housetraining is going well, then if you want to, change the kibble. Dog Food Advisor has reviews of kibble: https://www.dogfoodadvisor.com/ I feed my puppy a grain free kibble (Taste of the Wild salmon) and an all life stages (Solid Gold Barking at the Moon) 1/2 of each. So, I think it's fine if the puppy does well on it, to feed a grain free and/or an all life stages. I would suggest only socializing him with dogs who you know and are healthy and vaccinated and that they are good with puppies. I would also do it for short periods as a puppy can quickly overtire an older dog who would then be prone to snap.
 

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I'm so lucky, Inga was raised on Purina One Large Breed Puppy and now on Purina One Large Breed Adult. No problems, great health, great coat, great poop, no allergies. Guess I just lucked out.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Since your puppy is having loose stools on Blue Buffalo, I would suggest going back to the ProPlan which the breeder was feeding him. Then after a month when he's settled in his new home and the housetraining is going well, then if you want to, change the kibble. Dog Food Advisor has reviews of kibble: I feed my puppy a grain free kibble (Taste of the Wild salmon) and an all life stages (Solid Gold Barking at the Moon) 1/2 of each. So, I think it's fine if the puppy does well on it, to feed a grain free and/or an all life stages. I would suggest only socializing him with dogs who you know and are healthy and vaccinated and that they are good with puppies. I would also do it for short periods as a puppy can quickly overtire an older dog who would then be prone to snap.
Thank you for your answer. I will go and return the food today to Petco. I guess I will keep it with the Pro Plan for a while, even I don't fully like the ingredients, according to the website of dog food, Blue Buffalo has a higher score than Pro Plan (but I believe it is not the same we get here).
I read in a few places that Grain Free was not good for puppies, I guess I will read again. Probably making the change in a month for a grain free product like Merrick... You don't feed puppy food? I am sorry to ask, but is that better?

Also, regarding the socialization, yes, I will take it to see again his only brother and to meet a couple of older dogs that are really nice and well taken care of...

Thank you.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Feed your puppy anything but Blue, and the sooner you switch the better. If it was my puppy I would do a short fast and a hard switch just to get off the Blue.
I would feed literally anything but.
Why? Is it really that bad?
The ingredient list looked nice enough... I did not know it was bad.
But I will go back to Pro Plan for a month I guess
 

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Discussion Starter #7
I'm so lucky, Inga was raised on Purina One Large Breed Puppy and now on Purina One Large Breed Adult. No problems, great health, great coat, great poop, no allergies. Guess I just lucked out.
I don't think we have that type of Purina here... would you mind sharing a picture of your dog?
I will look for that food. I live three hours from the border of the US, and my family over there uses Blue Buffalo, that's why I went with it when I realized Petco had it here too.
 

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Merrick is also owned by Purina.

Of the brands you listed, Nature's Variety Instinct has a pretty good reputation -- that's probably where I'd go if I were limted to the ones on your list. It's a rich food, so it may cause diarrhea though in some dogs. Nature's Variety Prairie is less rich.

Personally, I don't think there's enough difference between Purina One and Pro Plan to justify a price difference between them -- if you are considering Pro Plan, you might as well look at One (at 25% lower cost), as the ingredients are pretty similar. Here's an example:

Purina One Chicken and Rice:

Ingredients: chicken, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, whole grain corn, poultry by-product meal, whole grain wheat, soybean meal, animal fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), animal digest, glycerin, calcium phosphate, caramel color, calcium carbonate, salt, potassium chloride, vitamin E supplement, choline chloride, zinc sulfate, l-lysine monohydrochloride, ferrous sulfate, sulfur, manganese sulfate, niacin, vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, vitamin B12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, garlic oil, folic acid, vitamin D3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex, sodium selenite.

  • Crude Protein (min): 26.00%
  • Crude Fat (min): 16.00%
  • Crude Fiber (max): 3.00%
  • Moisture (max): 12.00%
  • Calories: 3993.00 kcals/kg
  • Carbohydrate: 38.00%
Purina Pro Plan Savor Chicken & Rice
Ingredients: chicken, brewers rice, whole grain wheat, poultry by-product meal, soybean meal, corn gluten meal, animal fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), whole grain corn, fish meal, animal digest, glycerin, dried egg product, wheat bran, calcium carbonate, salt, calcium phosphate, potassium chloride, vitamin E supplement, zinc proteinate, choline chloride, manganese proteinate, ferrous sulfate, l-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate, sulfur, niacin, l-lysine monohydrochloride, copper proteinate, vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin supplement, vitamin B12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, garlic oil, folic acid, vitamin D3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex, sodium selenite.

  • Crude Protein (min): 26.00%
  • Crude Fat (min): 16.00%
  • Crude Fiber (max): 3.00%
  • Moisture (max): 12.00%
  • Calories: 3997.00 kcals/kg
  • Carbohydrate: 38.00%
Neither one looks anything like Nature's Variety Instinct (which is significantly more expensive. Here's the Instinct grain-free original Chicken:
Ingredients: chicken, turkey meal, chicken meal, pea, chickpea, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), salmon meal, egg, tapioca, dried tomato pomace, natural flavor, menhaden meal, vitamin E supplement, niacin supplement, l-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate, thiamine mononitrate, d-calcium pantothenate, vitamin A supplement, riboflavin supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, vitamin B12 supplement, folic acid, vitamin D3 supplement, biotin, montmorillonite clay, carrot, apple, cranberry, salt, zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, copper proteinate, manganese proteinate, sodium selenite, ethylenediamine dihydriodide, potassium chloride, freeze dried chicken, choline chloride, freeze dried chicken liver, pumpkin seed, freeze dried chicken heart, dried bacillus coagulans fermentation product, rosemary extract.

  • Crude Protein (min): 37.00%
  • Crude Fat (min): 20.00%
  • Crude Fiber (max): 3.00%
  • Moisture (max): 10.00%
  • Calories: 4250.00 kcals/kg
  • Carbohydrate: 25.00%
 

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Agree with the others, get off of Blue Buffalo ASAP it's poison. It gave my puppy heavy metal toxic poisoning. We have had great results with Natures Instinct raw, and I haven't heard of any recalls lately. My cat eats Merrick right now though and she seems to enjoy it. If you know a friendly, vaccinated, well tempered dog that you think would be a good example for your dog (notice I said good example, do you think this dog is well behaved?) then I would say socialize. Otherwise wait for all vaccines to be finished. You can still do things with the pup but just limit and be careful with what you do.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Merrick is also owned by Purina.

Of the brands you listed, Nature's Variety Instinct has a pretty good reputation -- that's probably where I'd go if I were limted to the ones on your list. It's a rich food, so it may cause diarrhea though in some dogs. Nature's Variety Prairie is less rich.

Personally, I don't think there's enough difference between Purina One and Pro Plan to justify a price difference between them -- if you are considering Pro Plan, you might as well look at One (at 25% lower cost), as the ingredients are pretty similar. Here's an example:

Purina One Chicken and Rice:

Ingredients: chicken, brewers rice, corn gluten meal, whole grain corn, poultry by-product meal, whole grain wheat, soybean meal, animal fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), animal digest, glycerin, calcium phosphate, caramel color, calcium carbonate, salt, potassium chloride, vitamin E supplement, choline chloride, zinc sulfate, l-lysine monohydrochloride, ferrous sulfate, sulfur, manganese sulfate, niacin, vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, copper sulfate, riboflavin supplement, vitamin B12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, garlic oil, folic acid, vitamin D3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex, sodium selenite.

  • Crude Protein (min): 26.00%
  • Crude Fat (min): 16.00%
  • Crude Fiber (max): 3.00%
  • Moisture (max): 12.00%
  • Calories: 3993.00 kcals/kg
  • Carbohydrate: 38.00%
Purina Pro Plan Savor Chicken & Rice
Ingredients: chicken, brewers rice, whole grain wheat, poultry by-product meal, soybean meal, corn gluten meal, animal fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols), whole grain corn, fish meal, animal digest, glycerin, dried egg product, wheat bran, calcium carbonate, salt, calcium phosphate, potassium chloride, vitamin E supplement, zinc proteinate, choline chloride, manganese proteinate, ferrous sulfate, l-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate, sulfur, niacin, l-lysine monohydrochloride, copper proteinate, vitamin A supplement, calcium pantothenate, thiamine mononitrate, riboflavin supplement, vitamin B12 supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, garlic oil, folic acid, vitamin D3 supplement, calcium iodate, biotin, menadione sodium bisulfite complex, sodium selenite.

  • Crude Protein (min): 26.00%
  • Crude Fat (min): 16.00%
  • Crude Fiber (max): 3.00%
  • Moisture (max): 12.00%
  • Calories: 3997.00 kcals/kg
  • Carbohydrate: 38.00%
Neither one looks anything like Nature's Variety Instinct (which is significantly more expensive. Here's the Instinct grain-free original Chicken:
Ingredients: chicken, turkey meal, chicken meal, pea, chickpea, chicken fat (preserved with mixed tocopherols and citric acid), salmon meal, egg, tapioca, dried tomato pomace, natural flavor, menhaden meal, vitamin E supplement, niacin supplement, l-ascorbyl-2-polyphosphate, thiamine mononitrate, d-calcium pantothenate, vitamin A supplement, riboflavin supplement, pyridoxine hydrochloride, vitamin B12 supplement, folic acid, vitamin D3 supplement, biotin, montmorillonite clay, carrot, apple, cranberry, salt, zinc proteinate, iron proteinate, copper proteinate, manganese proteinate, sodium selenite, ethylenediamine dihydriodide, potassium chloride, freeze dried chicken, choline chloride, freeze dried chicken liver, pumpkin seed, freeze dried chicken heart, dried bacillus coagulans fermentation product, rosemary extract.

  • Crude Protein (min): 37.00%
  • Crude Fat (min): 20.00%
  • Crude Fiber (max): 3.00%
  • Moisture (max): 10.00%
  • Calories: 4250.00 kcals/kg
  • Carbohydrate: 25.00%
Well, Purina One is not available here actually either. I don't know much about it either. I really don't like the ingredients on Purina, but I do not have many choices as you can see.

I was checking Instinct with Chicken at the Mexico's Petco, it is in Spanish though... it is grain free and for all ages, would that be suitable for a puppy as mine? with such protein and calcium? I am willing to give it a try, even as it is expensive, but I don't think it would be proper right away, I will go back to Pro Plan here, as many have suggested... but then I can try it, how long should I wait? It is a huge bag so, I need some commitment...
 

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You didn't say "which" Instinct you were considering.

Are you referring to Nature's Variety - Instinct® Raw Boost® Grain-Free Recipe with Real Chicken for Large Breed Puppies?
https://www.instinctpetfood.com/dogs/raw-boost/instinct-raw-boost-grain-free-recipe-real-chicken-large-breed-puppies

From the list you mentioned, I'd feed the NV Raw Boost LBP above.


NOTE:
Nature's Variety PRAIRIE: "Each Prairie formula is complete and balanced for your dog. Our kibble formulas are great for any size or life stage, except for large size puppies (70 pounds or more as an adult)." Prairie Kibble | Prairie Pet Food for Dogs and Cats


Always transition with small amounts of new food mixed with old, taking a week or two to change eventually transitioning out the old food.
If stool gets loose, go back to previous amount fed (where stool was solid) and hold at that amount for a few days until his gut gets use to it. Then increase again. This is called "bowel tolerance".





Moms :)
 

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Discussion Starter #12
UPDATE on the available foods. They do have Instinct as mentioned, but not for puppies just for all life stages.

And Canidae Pure for Puppy with Chicken (Not large breed specific).
 

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Purina is very very bad food, same with blue, they are both basically poison.

Canidae is a fairly high quality food and i would recommend that for sure since it is available to you. although chicken isn't the greatest, its a common allergen, and isnt the greatest nutrition wise but that canidae is much better quality than any of the other brands you have access to

instinct might be better fairly good as well but I haven't personally done much research on it
 

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Gee, Inga must be nearly dead now. She has eaten Purina One Large Breed Puppy and now being "poisoned" by Purina One Large Breed Adult.

Seems like the OP should be able to find it somewhere, its sold in every grocery store in the US. Also, it flies off the shelves, does not sit around growing rancid. You have to be careful of fats going rancid in warm climates especially. Smell it. You can tell if dog food is rancid. It smells kind of like a stale macadamia nut tastes.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
Gee, Inga must be nearly dead now. She has eaten Purina One Large Breed Puppy and now being "poisoned" by Purina One Large Breed Adult.

Seems like the OP should be able to find it somewhere, its sold in every grocery store in the US. Also, it flies off the shelves, does not sit around growing rancid. You have to be careful of fats going rancid in warm climates especially. Smell it. You can tell if dog food is rancid. It smells kind of like a stale macadamia nut tastes.
I live in Mexico.... In Sonora to be more specific.... Indeed next to Arizona, but my city is around three to fours hours from the US (I go three to four times a year). I don't think I can drive for a food that I am not sure he will take or like. He does like dirt and rocks, so, I guess he likes everything. But I would be afraid to have to get a food I can not easily get where I live. There is no Purina One in our Petco, and there nothing from Purina but Beneful and Dog Show at the grocery stores and supermarkets.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
You didn't say "which" Instinct you were considering.

Are you referring to Nature's Variety - Instinct® Raw Boost® Grain-Free Recipe with Real Chicken for Large Breed Puppies?
https://www.instinctpetfood.com/dogs/raw-boost/instinct-raw-boost-grain-free-recipe-real-chicken-large-breed-puppies

From the list you mentioned, I'd feed the NV Raw Boost LBP above.


NOTE:
Nature's Variety PRAIRIE: "Each Prairie formula is complete and balanced for your dog. Our kibble formulas are great for any size or life stage, except for large size puppies (70 pounds or more as an adult)." Prairie Kibble | Prairie Pet Food for Dogs and Cats


Always transition with small amounts of new food mixed with old, taking a week or two to change eventually transitioning out the old food.
If stool gets loose, go back to previous amount fed (where stool was solid) and hold at that amount for a few days until his gut gets use to it. Then increase again. This is called "bowel tolerance".





Moms :)

https://www.petco.com.mx/petco/en/search?q=natures+variety:relevance:category:101:brand:Instinct&text=natures variety

That is the link in Spanish of the food from Instinct available. None is for puppy.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
Agree with the others, get off of Blue Buffalo ASAP it's poison. It gave my puppy heavy metal toxic poisoning. We have had great results with Natures Instinct raw, and I haven't heard of any recalls lately. My cat eats Merrick right now though and she seems to enjoy it. If you know a friendly, vaccinated, well tempered dog that you think would be a good example for your dog (notice I said good example, do you think this dog is well behaved?) then I would say socialize. Otherwise wait for all vaccines to be finished. You can still do things with the pup but just limit and be careful with what you do.
Yes, I want to take him with an uncle's dog. It is a 6 year old GSD, really well behaved and nice. He has proven to be easy with other dogs.

On the other hand, I have been talking with the person that got his only brother and he has vaccinated him and all, I think they might be good playing together. Would be a nice idea?

Most of my relatives have small breed dogs, so, I would not take him with any of them. Some of them have really awful tempers, and some others are really small and Odie might hurt them.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Purina is very very bad food, same with blue, they are both basically poison.

Canidae is a fairly high quality food and i would recommend that for sure since it is available to you. although chicken isn't the greatest, its a common allergen, and isnt the greatest nutrition wise but that canidae is much better quality than any of the other brands you have access to

instinct might be better fairly good as well but I haven't personally done much research on it
This is the Canidae available. It is new here https://www.petco.com.mx/petco/en/PRODUCTOS/PERRO/Alimento/Alimento-Natural/Pure-Foundation-Cachorro/p/123026

The link is from Mexico's Petco. But I think the picture is the same as the ones that sell in the US.

It is not advertised for Large Breed Puppy, and I cannot find the calcium min and max....

Will it be good anyway? How long should I wait before changing it? Right Now I am feeding ProPlan again.
 

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Blue Buffalo is a very sketchy company. The ingredient list may look good. Its just about what the ingredients really are. They are a company not to trust. Petco gets bonuses based on what they sell, be careful with them. Sales reps are told which foods to push.

Best lawsuit, Purina verse Blue Buffalo. Battle of the dog killer brands

Purina, Blue Buffalo settle false advertising lawsuit | Business | stltoday.com



Pet food is one of the biggest booming businesses in the world. You usually can find a good mom and pop store close to you. Use this link to see if any are around you. This food is not allowed to be sold at the huge chains. If they sell this, they will carry other brands that can be trusted.

https://www.orijen.ca/us/where-to-buy/


As far as stores we have a great site which I use below and its delivered right to the door for free. I also get 12% off on auto ship on foods that the dog food companies do not allow discounts on.

https://www.petflow.com


This is a great read on foods and terrible company's. Not like dog food advisory that excludes how bad a company may be and past track records.

https://www.reviews.com/dog-food/

This is a great thing to watch as well on buying dog food

 

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My dad's elderly dog eats Purina One (which is indistinguishable for Pro Plan). It's the only food her tender tummy tolerates well--attempted "upgrades" set off long-term diarrhea and skin issues that take months to resolve. Even downgrades to cheaper things within the Purina line that my father attempted to save money did the same. It's hard to explain, but this food just works for her. Her coat isn't what I'd like it to be, but she's not itchy and has a calm tummy, and she's ancient--living a long, happy life. Several shelters I know also feed it, and they get less diarrhea than with Science Diet.

I checked with a friend who feeds Pro Plan, and she's used LBP. Her dogs are healthy -- with no pano (which is one of the reasons to feed LBP). They're definitely not "poisoned."

We need to remember that many readers outside the US don't have access to the same brands in Canada, Europe, or the US. A bag of Pro Plan or Royal Canin or Diamond *is* better than many options fed to dogs around the world -- far better than Beneful or Dog Chow or Pedigree or Ol' Roy or Alpo in the US. (Or whatever that Latvian brand was that gave Baltic dogs Mega-Esophagus as described in the TedX vet talk that's circulating!) We do a disservice to dogs around the world that could get decent, balanced, safe food relative to local options available to them by scaring people away from balanced, mid-grade foods.

Are there better foods? Abolutely! Will your dog likely do okay on Pro Plan or Royal Canin until it's at an age where you have more choices in LBP food? Yes, and you can supplement with fresh food and fish oil and a probiotic to help too.

Dry dog food is a spectrum, from really bad to pretty good -- even in the same manufacturing plant. Most of it at the high end probably still has issues that are less than ideal -- like rendered meat meals, and carbs that produce acrilymides under high heat (since kibble won't extrude without a carb source). If you feed kibble, you have to make peace with some level of compromise -- it's all highly processed -- and it's just a matter of which level of compromise you are personally comfortable with (and your budget can live with). So you buy the best ingredient list you can, from the company with the least history of problems, and hope the company isn't lying about what's in the bag.

OP, feed the Pro Plan LBP that's working for the puppy if it's your only available LBP option in Mexico. Add a daily squirt of fish oil, and a probiotic a few times a week. By the time he's big enough to switch, you have good options to consider in adolescence (when most dogs have very high metabolism).
 
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