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Discussion Starter #1
Why is it when someone comes to this section and askes about breeder recommendations, someone will probably ask, "What lines?"

I talked to a breeder, asked them about the lines and to break it down.

My point is, isn't a working dog a working dog?

I mean, if someone comes here and says,
"I am a police officer and we're looking for a breeder that produces dogs that sniff out drugs." (Not saying a police officer would say that, but just giving an example)

Why does someone respond, "What lines?" Why does it matter? I'm sorry, I just don't get it.
 

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My guess is that different working lines have a variety of different characteristics that might make the choice of one over another for a particular application better.
 

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People have a mental picture of what kind of dog they want. Really.

So even though many of them say 'I want the best GSD for finding drugs' if I gave them a breeder who only breeds White GSD's and that doesn't fit their mental picture, then the nose of the dog won't matter.

The other thing has to do with people's background and experience. Cause though they may SAY they want a working line dog, if this is the first puppy they've ever had/trained/raised, it may turn out to NOT be what they wanted at all......

Fact of the matter is, when I talk to people who want a GSD and mention 'what lines are you interested in' and they look at me like I have 2 heads and am suddenly speaking a foreign language, I know these same people need to do a whole lot more research. Cause if they don't know about the different lines, I've found they also don't know all the health and temperament issues in the breed, and that the trip they were making to the pet store to pick up their new puppy may want to be put off.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I see, so it's like fruit.

There are many different types of fruit. A person can say, "I want a bright colored fruit." But can they handle a strawberry? Is the strawberry for them? I think I understand it better now. Thank you guys.
 

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I see, so it's like fruit.

There are many different types of fruit. A person can say, "I want a bright colored fruit." But can they handle a strawberry? Is the strawberry for them? I think I understand it better now. Thank you guys.
Or.....
It's like someone saying they want an apple.

Do they want a tart green apple or a sweeter one?
Do they want an apple with a crispy crunch or one that's softer and easier to bite into with their dentures.
Tough skin or easy to chew?
Large apple or small apple?
Bright green, red, or red and yellow?

So that's it. GSD's are like apples. Who knew?? ;)
 

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there are good and bad dogs in every lines and dogs that can perform every task in just about every lines so yeah it is a littly silly it is more on the breeder and the dogs they breed JMHO


certain lines do tend to hold certain characteristics more often so they become known for it but in reality those characteristics can be present in all of the lines


like some may say czech dogs may be more serious and meant for personal protection police

and west german for serious sport schutzund, but in reality both of these bloodlines can often be used in either.
 

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Or a brownie.

Do you want a gushy soft one?
Do you want frosting?
Do you want a harder one?
Do you want it speckled with powdered sugar?
Do you want walnuts in it?
Do you want an illegal substance in it?

Some brownies are not for just anyone.

I think GSDs are more like brownies.
They are naturally attractive to all but a few weirdows.
You can tell they are there when you open the front door.
They come in a bunch of varieties.
Some of them can get you into trouble.
But mostly, they are simply enjoyable.
 

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Because different lines have different physical and temperament traits that are quite consistent within those lines. An ASL, WGSL, and WL all not only look very different, but have very different personalities in most cases. It's rather sad from many angles that the breed is so fragmented and split like this, but it's a fact of life.

And since most breeders focus on one of those types, knowing what type when someone is looking for a breeder sure makes giving suitable recommendations easier. A bunch of recommendations to show or pet breeders isn't going to really be helpful for someone wanting to do SchH or, in your example, looking for a K9. Likewise, ASL recommendations to someone wanting to do German conformation showing, or WGSL recommendations for someone wanting to do AKC conformation, or in most cases WL recommendations for either aren't going to be very helpful.

So when someone asks looking for a breeder, this is naturally the first question to ask for many people. Because finding out what type fits into their personality, lifestyle and goals is rather important when it comes to recommending breeders.

I don't see too many cases like you posted akin to a police officer looking for a K9 getting questioned on lines, because with that particular goal the line is sort of predetermined. But I see a lot of people saying they want a GSD, not providing much more info than that, in which case of course it is natural for people to try to narrow it down to what type would be best suited (or as is often the case, make sure the person understands there ARE different types with vastly different traits) so they can even know what sort of breeder to look at.
 

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Or a brownie.

Do you want a gushy soft one?
Do you want frosting?
Do you want a harder one?
Do you want it speckled with powdered sugar?
Do you want walnuts in it?
Do you want an illegal substance in it?

Some brownies are not for just anyone.

I think GSDs are more like brownies.
They are naturally attractive to all but a few weirdows.
You can tell they are there when you open the front door.
They come in a bunch of varieties.
Some of them can get you into trouble.
But mostly, they are simply enjoyable.

That is a great analogy!
 

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I think GSDs are more like brownies.
They are naturally attractive to all but a few weirdows.
You can tell they are there when you open the front door.
They come in a bunch of varieties.
Some of them can get you into trouble.
But mostly, they are simply enjoyable.
that, was awesome. Would you mind if I reposted it?
 

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No, but please spell weirdos correctly.
 

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People have a mental picture of what kind of dog they want. Really.

So even though many of them say 'I want the best GSD for finding drugs' if I gave them a breeder who only breeds White GSD's and that doesn't fit their mental picture, then the nose of the dog won't matter.

The other thing has to do with people's background and experience. Cause though they may SAY they want a working line dog, if this is the first puppy they've ever had/trained/raised, it may turn out to NOT be what they wanted at all......

Fact of the matter is, when I talk to people who want a GSD and mention 'what lines are you interested in' and they look at me like I have 2 heads and am suddenly speaking a foreign language, I know these same people need to do a whole lot more research. Cause if they don't know about the different lines, I've found they also don't know all the health and temperament issues in the breed, and that the trip they were making to the pet store to pick up their new puppy may want to be put off.

I think things also have to have relevance for people also, Maggie. I see the titles underneath the names of several folks here and even if I actually knew what all of them meant, it would still have to mean something to me.

So, "X" dog is titled in this or that ... well, that's cool and all ... for the owner ... but if I'm not involved in that and don't care about it ... what relevance does that have for me?

If someone has a champion horse, great "lines", etc., they are proud of their animal and its titles, but if I just enjoy taking my horse for a rides through the woods ... I just don't "care" about their champion horse. It doesn't mean anything to me. Not that it doesn't mean anything, just that it doesn't to me.

Probably not explaining this very well, so I hope you get my meaning. :rolleyes:
 

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If you want a shutzhund dog, get a dog from someone who breeds dogs who compete in shutzhund, someone who has schutzhund champions even.

If you want a dog to title in herding, get a pup from someone who does it, either someone who raises the dogs to work sheep, or someone who competes with their dogs.

But if you just want a companion, some would say get a dog from people who have great pets.

I agree that the dogs should be excellent pets, but they should be more than just pets. Titles are not the end all, but they do tell you some stuff.

They tell you that the dogs used for breeding this pup can be trained to a certain level, and can manage to do what is required in a show atmosphere. It also tells you that the owners of the breeding pair are serious about producing dogs that can function under a variety of situations. That they are serious about the breed. That they are serious about training.

So it does give you something, and you can also go back to this breeder with questions and problems. A lot of companion breeders, might not have a clue -- not about showing, but about behavior and training issues.
 

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Hi. An officer / department looking for a sniffer dog (or whatever) wouldn't ask about the lines . Show me the dog . Does IT work . It is the breeder that has an interest in the lines -- the strengths of peculiarities of the line . The breeder then has information with which to plan and anticipate success in producing this kind of dog which will be of interest and successful to the officer/department . Reduce the risk of failure , increase the rates of success.
Lines do matter. There are different maturity rates for one example.
Some lines are strong and active in aggression, some might be an accumulation of quick reactive dogs , others have high thresholds and require great pressure and threat to push them over into aggression but when they are there -- they are for real.
Some lines area built on stubborn dogs in the background, some that are lack lustre in obedience.
Conversely some lines are developed for high biddability or carry bloodlines with high hunt and search.

I wish more people would ask about the lines rather than ask if the dogs are black and red . .. black and tan ...
 

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I agree that the dogs should be excellent pets, but they should be more than just pets.
All right...Then what should they be??? How much *more* should they be? Frankly, (& honestly), the VAST majority of the SL dogs are less, much less, never mind 'more'...Soooo, should everyone seek a PERFORMANCE titled WL GS?
 

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I don't think everyone should seek a performance titled dog, but when talking about a shepherd it should be a dog capable of receiving a title in one working venue since they are a working breed right? Doesn't mean you have to title your dog just that breeders are creating shepherds with the ability to title:)

As to why people ask about specific lines not everyone is looking for the same thing in a shepherd. Beyond showline German or American, and working line East and West German the dogs used to create the pup are going to be known for varying qualities within these specific lines. Some will have more prey drive, some more defensive drives, different threshold levels, and therefore are better suited to different households and venues. If people are into show lines and we recommend working kennels we are not really helping;)
 

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What the various lines tell you is that the chances of getting a dog that can do the indicated work (conformation, ScH, HgH, police, etc.) well is significantly higher than if you got a dog from BYB(esp.!) or another "line". It is certainly NOT a guarantee that the dog will do well!

And of course you can also get a great ScH dog from US show lines, or a really mellow laid back calm non reactive or protective dog from top rated ScH champion WL parents. Not likely, but possible due to the wonders of genetics and environment!
 

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All right...Then what should they be??? How much *more* should they be? Frankly, (& honestly), the VAST majority of the SL dogs are less, much less, never mind 'more'...Soooo, should everyone seek a PERFORMANCE titled WL GS?
why are you digging on SL dogs? There are plenty of people with SL dogs on this forum, and to make a statement that they are less, much less -- what does that mean???

Sorry, I sure hope I am just taking that statement wrong.

I have taken conformation classes with one of my dogs. That is tougher than obedience, rally, and even agility classes (which I also took with this same puppy).

Why diss the showline dogs? Does it make working line dogs better somehow to put down showline dogs?

Whatever.

My point is that it is perfectly fine to have a dog who is not trained or titled in any venue, but if you are going to a breeder, the breeder should be doing something more with their dogs than just having them as pets.

Breeders should be a part of the dog-scene, they should be involved with a breed club or a training club, they should have some good training experience. Titles of some sort on their breeding stock gives you a pretty good indication that they are.

Seeing mom and pop in their home, does not really give an excellent indication of what the breeding animals are like. It only indicates what they are like in their home environment. Dogs that manage to get titles, have to manage to follow instructions in a noisy environment full of people and dogs.
 
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