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Discussion Starter #1
Hello all! I'm hoping you guys can help me.

Jones is our 2 year old GSD. He's always been VERY high energy, very mouthy, and has a high prey drive. He also loves other dogs, but doesn't always know when to back off. All in all, he's a very challenging, but very friendly dog.

Anyway, enter Ziva. She's a 10 week old GSD. We got her on Saturday, and have been struggling at how to best manage the two of them. He has been barking at her pretty much non-stop (what he does when he wants to play, and the other dog won't engage), and when she does try to play, he gets overly excited and is too rough. I think a large part of it is frustration because he's not getting too interact with her very much.

What we're doing now is keeping them separate, unless they're both pretty tired and laying around. Right now, she's in a play pen in the living room. She's desperately trying to play with him, and he's standing outside barking at her. Driving us crazy, but they don't seem too bothered! When they're both tired in the evenings, they'll relax together very nicely, so that gives me hope. I just want to know how to best manage this interim stage!

Thanks for any advice. =)
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Here's a couple pictures:





 

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Our male spent a lot of time laying down when he played with our female puppy so I was pretty comfortable when they played but still always supervised.

When you say rough what is Jones doing to the pup?
 

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Well, he's very mouthy, so he has his mouth wide open most of the time, with the occasional little nip. And he's fairly clumsy, so he kind of tramples her in his excitement. When she gets scared and whines/whimpers, it gets him even more excited. It's basically the way he plays with big dogs, so he doesn't seem to have any concept that she's only 13 pounds.
 

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I don't have a whole lot of advice but my best offer is go get a bike and USE it. Even without a puppy, your dog seems to have a LOT of pent up energy. I know this because Chance is the SAME way when he doesn't get enough exercise. Ever since my bike got broke (Thanks to an idiot who him and his family were living with us for several months and would take it without asking and eventually broke the peddle and back breaks along with leaving it out in the rain to rust!!) Chance has been **** to live with. There simply is NO way to walk off his energy and I'd have to spend ALL DAY at the dog park for him to run off enough to settle down for even 5 minutes. It's getting too cold for me to take him swimming which was the ONLY other thing besides biking that could tire him out. Fetch doesn't do anything either! (unless it's throwing the ball in the water for him to run/swim after) Training/working his mind helps tire him a LITTLE but because he has so much energy, it's hard to keep his focus anymore.

Chance has gone from biking 10 miles a day along with swimming, playing fetch, going to the dog park, playing tug, walking, obedience training, ect to just fetch, dog park, tug, walking and training. It's NOT enough for him. He -needs- that biking and swimming to keep him sane and settled. The biking more than anything! I don't have the time to stand outside and throw the ball for him all day long. I don't have the time to walk him all day long. I don't have the time for standing at the dog park all day long. (And that's only helpful if there are dogs actually there and once they get tired Chance stands over them and barks) I KNOW my dog is bored and that is what it sounds like with your guy too.
 

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It's basically the way he plays with big dogs, so he doesn't seem to have any concept that she's only 13 pounds.
Just supervise them for 2 weeks and make sure she doesn't get squished... as soon as she doubles in size and discovers her needle teeth, the shoe will be on the other paw! :)
He'll be bleeding and bruised and you'll be feeling sorry for him in no time ;)
 

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Clumsy GSD? Hard to believe. Maybe I'm just lucky.
More likely he is 'acting' clumsy and bumping/stepping on purpose.
Some dogs are mouthy but don't bite. They just use their mouths to
touch/taste/feel things because they don't have hands. Mine is mouthy
but there is never any pressure exerted.
I give you a lot of credit for taking on such a big task (or are you just NUTS!) ...kidding...
Agree with the advice above to exercise your dogs but beware, it takes a LOT to
tire them out; however, just think of all the exercise YOU are getting.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I don't have a whole lot of advice but my best offer is go get a bike and USE it. Even without a puppy, your dog seems to have a LOT of pent up energy. I know this because Chance is the SAME way when he doesn't get enough exercise. Ever since my bike got broke (Thanks to an idiot who him and his family were living with us for several months and would take it without asking and eventually broke the peddle and back breaks along with leaving it out in the rain to rust!!) Chance has been **** to live with. There simply is NO way to walk off his energy and I'd have to spend ALL DAY at the dog park for him to run off enough to settle down for even 5 minutes. It's getting too cold for me to take him swimming which was the ONLY other thing besides biking that could tire him out. Fetch doesn't do anything either! (unless it's throwing the ball in the water for him to run/swim after) Training/working his mind helps tire him a LITTLE but because he has so much energy, it's hard to keep his focus anymore.

Chance has gone from biking 10 miles a day along with swimming, playing fetch, going to the dog park, playing tug, walking, obedience training, ect to just fetch, dog park, tug, walking and training. It's NOT enough for him. He -needs- that biking and swimming to keep him sane and settled. The biking more than anything! I don't have the time to stand outside and throw the ball for him all day long. I don't have the time to walk him all day long. I don't have the time for standing at the dog park all day long. (And that's only helpful if there are dogs actually there and once they get tired Chance stands over them and barks) I KNOW my dog is bored and that is what it sounds like with your guy too.
Thanks for sharing your experiences with Chance. It sounds like he and Jones have quite a bit in common. I'm sorry. ;)

Jones gets quite a bit of exercise every day, and we used to even more intense exercise, but we've had to back off for a couple reasons. One is that he has IBD and vigorous exercise seems to really aggravate it, so that's a problem. The other is that he's got some neurological issues in his back legs, that make him weaker and clumsier than a normal GSD, so we have to make sure not to overwork him because of that. I'm sure he could really benefit from more exercise than he currently gets, but I'm trying to balance his health along with his exercise requirements. It's a bit challenging, to say the least! =)

I've thought about biking with him before, so maybe I'll give it a shot in the nearish future when I am actually getting some sleep at night. =)
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Just supervise them for 2 weeks and make sure she doesn't get squished... as soon as she doubles in size and discovers her needle teeth, the shoe will be on the other paw! :)
He'll be bleeding and bruised and you'll be feeling sorry for him in no time ;)
Hahaha...I hope that's true! =) But then I will totally feel sorry for him. He's my baby. :wub:
 

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Clumsy GSD? Hard to believe. Maybe I'm just lucky.
More likely he is 'acting' clumsy and bumping/stepping on purpose.
Some dogs are mouthy but don't bite. They just use their mouths to
touch/taste/feel things because they don't have hands. Mine is mouthy
but there is never any pressure exerted.
I give you a lot of credit for taking on such a big task (or are you just NUTS!) ...kidding...
Agree with the advice above to exercise your dogs but beware, it takes a LOT to
tire them out; however, just think of all the exercise YOU are getting.
He genuinely is clumsy, and always has been, because of some neurological issues he has in his rear legs. We've done everything (MRIs, CT scans, many specialist consults) to figure out what's going on, and it looks like we may never know. Part of the reason we got the puppy now, is because I don't know what his future holds, and I wanted him to be able to enjoy a friend while he's still doing well. And yes, I am totally nuts. I admit it. :blush:

Jones is mouthy, and most of the time he's fairly gentle, but when he gets really excited and over-stimulated, then he does use a lot of pressure. It's something we've worked on with him since he was a puppy, and it is still a work in progress. He's a bit of a challenge. =)
 

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I am not sure what your dog knows but I hope he knows NICE or Gentile.
What about if someone comes to the door or the house can you control him easy enough.
Does he leave your stuff alone and stay off counters and tables. Does he know what is off limits is what I am asking here.
 

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I am not sure what your dog knows but I hope he knows NICE or Gentile.
What about if someone comes to the door or the house can you control him easy enough.
Does he leave your stuff alone and stay off counters and tables. Does he know what is off limits is what I am asking here.
We've started working on gentle, but we hadn't used it before. Once he gets over the initial excitement of a new person being in the house, he's good around them. He definitely does know his limits, and for the most part, has good house manners. He has come a LONG way from when he was younger. I imagine he'll always be a work in progress though.
 

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One of you get in a protected area like your back against a wall or even in a corner of your room or bottom of a staircase. Kneel or sit down with your puppy in your arms. The other one bring out your 2 year old on a leash but put yourself between the puppy and your 2 year old.
Holding your arm out make your dog give you the space you are asking for. Back him away from your wife and your puppy. This is the same thing you do with your door when someone comes over. Claim your door. Hold your ground until he sits or lays down. Give him very good treats once he sits or lays down.

Now that you have showed you are in control and that pup is off limits when he acts crazy you can now bring him to the puppy. The puppy at this age has no fear so she will want to play but just keep it low keyed rewarding your 2 year old for being so gentile. Always use the word you chose and say it often to remind him you are the one in control and reward him when he does good.

Eventually you can let them free but never out of sight not for fear he might bite her but he might just hurt her because he's a clumsy big dog.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
One of you get in a protected area like your back against a wall or even in a corner of your room or bottom of a staircase. Kneel or sit down with your puppy in your arms. The other one bring out your 2 year old on a leash but put yourself between the puppy and your 2 year old.
Holding your arm out make your dog give you the space you are asking for. Back him away from your wife and your puppy. This is the same thing you do with your door when someone comes over. Claim your door. Hold your ground until he sits or lays down. Give him very good treats once he sits or lays down.

Now that you have showed you are in control and that pup is off limits when he acts crazy you can now bring him to the puppy. The puppy at this age has no fear so she will want to play but just keep it low keyed rewarding your 2 year old for being so gentile. Always use the word you chose and say it often to remind him you are the one in control and reward him when he does good.

Eventually you can let them free but never out of sight not for fear he might bite her but he might just hurt her because he's a clumsy big dog.
Ok, that actually sounds a lot like what we're trying to do. Joe holds her on his lap, and I work with Jones. I'm using string cheese, which is his favorite treat in the world. He's really good when the cheese is out, and Ziva is just sitting on Joe's lap. As soon as she starts moving though, all bets are off.
 

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Thats why you have to stay on him and let him know you mean business. There should not be all bets are off he listens on a leash then he listens off a leash you just need to go slow and reward at the right times and MEAN BUSINESS you show your 2 year old what you expect from him period. =)
 

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We'll certainly keep working on it. My concern is that I don't want him to associate her with getting "in trouble." The string cheese is a great tool, because it keeps it very positive, but I can't do that all the time, of course. =)
 

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We'll certainly keep working on it. My concern is that I don't want him to associate her with getting "in trouble." The string cheese is a great tool, because it keeps it very positive, but I can't do that all the time, of course. =)
If he associates acting naughty with her as getting into trouble then you have accomplished your task.

Don't worry about upsetting your 2 year old you are just asking him to act a certain way when he is with the puppy if he gets it while you have a steak in your hand trust me he gets it all the time.
 

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Ok, that's a better way to look at it. I'm trying to be very aware of how stressful this is for him, given that he's had free run of the house and hasn't had to share our attention for 2 years. I must admit, it makes me feel a little guilty having brought a puppy in, even though I know that he's eventually going to love it. I'm obviously a very concerned mommy. =)
 

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To tell you the truth when I introduce a new puppy I basically follow this protocol, adjusted for a puppy and not an adult dog. It gives me time to introduce my puppy to my house, allows my older dogs to get used to the fact that puppy is now a part of the pack, and also allows my puppy to grow some before I let him play offlead with the big dogs. This way every step of interaction is slow and monitored so that the transition is nice and smooth and no one gets uncomfortable or hurt. I know it seems like a lot...but when you consider that the puppy is going to be a family member for the next 10 years, taking 3 or 4 months to integrate the puppy slowly and properly really isn't that much at all.

Leerburg | Introducing a Dog into a Home with other Dogs

I start for the first few weeks just letting them visit through the crates. Otherwise they are kept separate. (Argos with Ellie @ 9 weeks)


Then I take them for walks together for the next couple of weeks. This all proceeds well, then I progress to the next stage...

Obedience with the puppy. My older dogs understand how to stay focsed on me and their toys and not on the puppy. This allows the puppy to run around and see the older dog, but still allows me a measure of control.


Than once that is all going well, I feel comfortable with my ability to stop any kind of play I don't like, and I feel that the play style of the dogs is appropriate to their size than I let everyone offlead just to play. Of course how fast I get to this point depends on my older dog...If my older dog is uncomfortable with the puppy I'll take it slow so that they can get used to each and the focus of my training will be more on getting the puppy to leave the older dog alone. If my older dog wants to trounce my puppy, my focus is more on teaching the older dog to ignore the puppy.

Argos was very sweet with Anka from the get-go, it was Anka we had to focus on.


When Argos a puppy, he was pretty rotten to Ellie and she would get very annoyed with him. They took a little longer to integrate. But you can see that by 5 months he was pretty big, so she couldn't really hurt him when she scolded him, and by that point he had learned to not be hurting her all the time.
 

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Wow...that's very helpful! Thank you so much! I've been more focused on trying to make things happen more quickly, so maybe I'll just be ok with it taking longer. I just don't want to do anything wrong that might cause problems between them in the long run!
 
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