German Shepherds Forum banner

1 - 17 of 17 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
77 Posts
Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I know its more complicated then just a selling and buying business, but is it really so hard to keep track of everything?

The first time I contacted this breeder (December) she told me that she had a long waiting list (15 people) and she wouldn't have puppies available till summer, and I said that was perfect because I wouldn't be ready till summer. So I told her to put me on the list, I have contacted her by phone and Email several times since then asking how things were going and such. She told me that she has names and dates down all over the place and she had yet to put them down on a master list (right there I was a little confused because I mean she isn't selling lemonade here) I said that's fine I would contact her later for more specific information on where I stand.

well she had her first litter of the year in January and as I knew all the puppies were spoken for, the next time I contacted her she mentioned there were several cancellations so I thought, well that's good, Maybe I will be able to take one home from the next litter, she took my name down AGAIN even though I told her she already had my name, she said that everything still wasn't on a master list....

she has her second litter due this week, that will be able to go home in may, I contacted her asking for confirmation that I will FOR SURE be able to have a puppy from this litter, I am the kind of person that needs to prepare for these things for a long time, that's why I contacted her in December to take a puppy home in may...

I noticed on her website its said there were still 2 puppies from the first litter that haven't sold, I asked if that meant I was first in line to reserve a puppy from her litter being born this week.
You know what she said?

That its really hard to know where you are on the list when people keep on canceling on me, its too bad you cant take one of the male puppies I have they are getting older by the day.....

....

ARE YOU KIDDING ME? your trying to sell me a puppy that I told you I wasn't prepared for because of your bad preparation?? I'm so frustrated and even more then that sad because I have been taking this so seriously and I have set my future work and vacation schedule around the information she has been telling me, its not my fault people cancel, all I'm asking for is confirmation that I can get one of those puppies!! considering you have 2 that haven't sold from a litter of 9 that you apparently had 15 people waiting for, cant you just tell me yes?
I am so worried that this is going to fall apart and all my planning is going to go down the drain because she hasn't been planning at all.......
and whats worse, I don't know what to say to her! I want to be nice but I feel like I'm getting no where.......

What would you do?

thanks for listening...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
245 Posts
Did you already put down a deposit? Unless for some reason you're absolutely set on this breeder, I'd just walk away.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
77 Posts
Discussion Starter #3
Did you already put down a deposit? Unless for some reason you're absolutely set on this breeder, I'd just walk away.
she doesn't accept deposits... I guess now I see why!

the thing is the dogs seem so great, and I'm sure shes a great breeder, just not a great business owner...
shes also an older lady so that might factor in.

I have been trying to get a puppy since last fall and I have walked out on a breeder already... I really don't want to do it again and end up having to wait even longer, especially when I have my work and vacation all planned around taking a puppy home in may....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,325 Posts
I was going to suggest a deposit also, but I see now not acceptable.

Our breeder was flake, not a good business person at all, but at least he frequently had puppies. I don't know how far you are willing to go, but I'd start doing a search for breeders in a 200 mile radius, and then visit in person.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
18,687 Posts
I would keep looking mostly because if this breeder is not organized enough to keep a good waiting list than will they be organized enough to pick the right puppy for you.

I also do not accept deposits yet I am quite organized.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,429 Posts
...I'd look elsewhere.

If someone is unable to keep track of potential buyers and homes, then I bet there's other areas she's "forgetting" too. Not someone I'd do business with.

Find some reputable breeders in your area and around it, do a visit if possible, and see what they can offer you.

Maybe this was a blessing in disguise....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
77 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
It seems like its harder then it should be to fine good breeders...
I will keep looking, But at this point if I cannot get a puppy in may or June, then I could be waiting till next year. I really don't want to have to do that, the only way I will back out is if I can find another breeder that meets all my standards and can offer me a puppy during this time....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,323 Posts
Then again that seems shallow, it may end up being worth the wait...
I don't know...
Trust me, it'd be worth the wait to give yourself some peace of mind, and find another breeder who won't jerk you around and who has their stuff together. As others have said, that level of flakiness is pretty extreme and a red flag. Take the time to find someone who respects you and their trade enough to keep you in the loop.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
148 Posts
I would also be a bit concerned with the disorganization. If she can't keep track of the names of her buyers, then what about other important papwerwork; health records, AKC registrations, pedigrees, and contracts?
There is a lot more that goes into being accountable to your puppy owners than just providing the pup. The business part is definetly not fun, but the ducks need to be in a pretty little row so that you can be of service to your new puppy owners.

I keep track of everybody through email until they take their pups home and then I also add a file. I'm sure there are other breeders that you can find in your area if you don't want to deal with shipping that have pups ready in May......

My upcoming litter is the first litter that I have accepted deposits on before they are born. It changes the whole dynamic but it also holds me accountable to the folks who want my pups. It's a two way deal and goes both ways.

Good Luck in your search.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,757 Posts
I would look else where. I have never taken deposits before, but after experiencing buyers backing out or not responding to your communications, I am rethinking that. I totally understand the reasoning and reasons behind requiring deposits. When someone backs out and you are left with finding placement for the pup that was reserved. Sometimes that means more advertising expense, more feeding expense, older, bigger, larger crate, more training, etc.
I know of a breeder having pups right now that would be ready in your timeframe. Very experienced, stands behind them, buyer support, etc. I had Yoko shipped to me sight unseen, never spoke on the phone to the breeder (just emails), and that was 6 1/2 yrs ago. She has passed all health checks, been trained and titled by me with ease. She has had two litters now (one pup back with her breeder). Very healthy dog.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
230 Posts
Walk away... Too important of a decision to entrust to a flaky person like that. You couldn't be much further away from me or I'd try to help out. I'm sure that others on here could help you find some better options.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,373 Posts
New breeder. Find someone you build a relationship with before you buy a puppy, not someone who treats names like bullet points on a list that they dont even get around to making :]

Just for comparison, my breeder made waitlists and stuff and for every update she had (xrays, pregnancy confirmations, etc) she sent out a mass email so that everyone felt like they were in the loop and knew what was going on.

Organization is a crucial skill in dog breeding.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
77 Posts
Discussion Starter #15
Ok... so after looking going threw her website very carefully looking for more information, I am finding more things that bother me...

1. she has a dog she is breeding and under its picture it says she is 8, I looked at her pedigree and it says she was born in 2003, I figure no big deal she sucks at keeping her websites information updated, it has a lot of other outdated information. I assume then she isnt breeding that dog because she is 10 years old, and I have read that 7 or 8 is on the old side for breeding stock.

but when I look under upcoming litters she is listed under summer 2013!
I'm new at this so maybe I'm overreacting, but isnt 10 years a little old to be breeding?

2. she has 3 breeding dams, in the description under 2 of them she lists the OFA hip status, but under the 3rd there isn't.
I looked on the OFA website, and same deal, the 2 dogs are there, the one isn't. and they are all older then 2 years.
and the one that isnt is the dog whose puppies I was planning on taking home...

3. her dogs last names are one letter away from the dogs of a well known breeder in my state....

ugh... she is starting to sound like a scam artist....
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,661 Posts
As a buyer, just from those three things I'd walk...no run...away very quickly. I can understand a bit of disorganization; I am certainly not the worlds' most organized person on the planet so I can forgive a lapse in organization here and there. Everything else on your list, not so much.

I'm sure you can find recomendations for other breeders from here. Sometimes, the wait is worth it!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
32,016 Posts
Ok... so after looking going threw her website very carefully looking for more information, I am finding more things that bother me...

1. she has a dog she is breeding and under its picture it says she is 8, I looked at her pedigree and it says she was born in 2003, I figure no big deal she sucks at keeping her websites information updated, it has a lot of other outdated information. I assume then she isnt breeding that dog because she is 10 years old, and I have read that 7 or 8 is on the old side for breeding stock.

but when I look under upcoming litters she is listed under summer 2013!
I'm new at this so maybe I'm overreacting, but isnt 10 years a little old to be breeding?

2. she has 3 breeding dams, in the description under 2 of them she lists the OFA hip status, but under the 3rd there isn't.
I looked on the OFA website, and same deal, the 2 dogs are there, the one isn't. and they are all older then 2 years.
and the one that isnt is the dog whose puppies I was planning on taking home...

3. her dogs last names are one letter away from the dogs of a well known breeder in my state....

ugh... she is starting to sound like a scam artist....
As always, trying to give the benefit of the doubt.

1. Hmmm, the bitch is 10 and she is still whelping and raising puppies? Well, it does say something about the longevity. Jenna and Babs will be eight this year in August, and for sure Babs is retired, but Jenna? I don't know. I don't picture breeding her two years from now though. It should really depend on the bitch's condition, but 10 is geriatric in a breed that has a typical lifespan of 10-12.

2. OFA is not the only organization that does genetic testing. Maybe her other female is a-stamped -- very likely if she is imported. If not, not all that likely. There is also penn-hip, but as the website is their window to the world, you would expect for them to have listed pen hip if they had done it, and I do not think they test elbows. Could be wrong about that though.

3. It really sound like you do not have any faith in this breeder at this point. And it's lack probably is pretty well founded.


I will say that it really isn't like any other business though. I mean if they are selling yellow Thunderbirds, and you are on a waiting list, And two of the shipment that came in in March are still sitting there with prices on them, you might feel that you will be getting your car soon. If they have those cars listed on some website as not sold, you can be ticked off.

But with dogs, you do not choose a breeder and say I want your first available puppy. Well, you might. Others will be looking for males if females are available. Others actually look at the pedigrees and want a dog from a specific dog and bitch combination. And other people, like you, may not have been ready for a puppy until, say, school lets out, so they have their name down on a litter that will be 8 weeks old near that time. So even though there are some January puppies available, you may not be #1 on the list for puppies ready in May.

My guess is that this woman always gets a ton of people saying they want a GSD, and then months later when the dogs are ready, they have already bought a GSD pup elsewhere. So she really doesn't get all that excited about a prospective puppy buyer until her pups are nearly ready to go. You can blame the breeder in this, but you can also blame the American, I want it right now this minute attitude. Some will wait for a puppy from a specific breeding. But others will be just as likely to go and find another dog, and then when they can get that dog now, they just forget about that first breeder. Usually not even bothering to let the breeder know they no longer have a puppy buyer. Because once they decide to go with someone else, many people feel no tie whatsoever to the breeder that they told they would buy a puppy from.

It really is kind of a one way street lots of times. The buyer wants this, gets mad when nature does not provide a litter, or enough males, or the color they were looking for, and then they want their deposit back, and the breeder is an ogre if she does not up and give it back right then and there.

Or if the buyer decides that now is not a good time to bring home a puppy because of children, new baby coming, problems at work, wanting to travel or any number of other reasons, and of course they want their deposit back, and the breeder is an ogre if she does not up and give it back right then and there.

Some breeders really do not want to deal with deposits because the deposit really does not mean that the buyer will not go to another breeder, but it had better mean that the breeder will produce a puppy of all the right specifications at the right time.

I will take deposits after the pups are on the ground, usually after they are a week old.
 
1 - 17 of 17 Posts
Top