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Discussion Starter #1
my puppy is only 5months old now and doing basic commands and having lots of energy these days.
i work with her with tug for few mins. slowly as she is on teething right now and sometimes i dont' even play tug.
i just want to know what is required as basic home training for her to make protection dog in the future.

would be great to hear.
thanks
 

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looking for site to buy good training equipments

are there good sites to buy good training equipments like good quality.

thanks
 

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Re: looking for site to buy good training equipments

Do you want to do Schutzhound? For a title? or just for guarding your home? If this is for home? From just my experience, Just good bonding & a good bark will do. My GSD was never trained for protection (I didn't want a dog bite law suit), but she nows on her own how to keep strangers & aggressers away without the bite.
 

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Re: looking for site to buy good training equipments

kool, your puppy is a shy puppy by nature. She is coming along very well, as far I can tell from your posts, mostly thanks to the good work you have been doing with her. With a shy pup, it is going to be your job to protect her, and make sure that nothing bad happens that will cause her to be afraid. Protection is better suited for very confident dogs who aren't afraid of anything. Dogs like that are bred purposely for protection work, as most dogs will be somewhat afraid of new situations and protection-type training.

However, you may not need to actually train your dog to protect you, as just having a large dog by your side is going to be a great deterent to anyone even remotly thinking of harming you. And frankly, that is all most people need, especially if you can teach your dog to bark and command. I mean, what kind of wacko will try to get by a barking German Shepherd?

If you really want to do this, you can go ahead and do some training for fun though. A very experienced and talented trainer can make it fun for your dog, without pushing her past the level that would be too stressful.

Pushing a dog that is timid and shy by nature into protection work can cause so much stress and trauma that she may be permanently damaged from an emotional point of view, so be very careful about pursuing this. Your puppy's well-being is wholly your responsibily, and that includes protecting and nurturing not only her physical health, but her emotional health also.
 

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Re: looking for site to buy good training equipments

thank you all for your suggestions.
castlemaid thanks for your concern and suggestions.
i thought she seems more confident these days and plays like crazy and goes outside very fine.
but barks at small dogs.
thought i could start basic protection training. ifnot i'll just teach her command and fun stuffs.
 

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Re: looking for site to buy good training equipments

A good thing to start teaching her would be the bark on command. That way if someone comes to the door or you see someone suspicous on your walk you can get herto bark.
 

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Re: looking for site to buy good training equipments

Originally Posted By: Castlemaid
However, you may not need to actually train your dog to protect you, as just having a large dog by your side is going to be a great deterent to anyone even remotly thinking of harming you. And frankly, that is all most people need, especially if you can teach your dog to bark and command. I mean, what kind of wacko will try to get by a barking German Shepherd?
How true!!!

Most dogs will protect their pack. I had a rescued 'fluffy goofy mop of a dog' as a teen, and she very sucessfully deterred a burglar!
A broken window and a piece of the bad guys trousers was all that was left when we got to the kitchen!

When I had my doors replaced a while ago, as the guys were finishing the installation I gave them the lock sets we bought...

One of them joked "Oh! you actually want these put in? You really don't need 'em with <u>those things </u>here! I thought the doors were just for climate control!"

Seems my girls are quite the visual deterrent!
 

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Re: looking for site to buy good training equipments

Bonding will give some protection but proper training is best. For example:

How does dog know good guy from bad?
Will dog attack someone who slaps you on the back in jest?
How do you get dog off if he attacks?
Can you control dog in a tricky situation where you are unsure?

I could go on and on. A properly trained dog, not just an instinctive one, is best. Can save your life but also save you from a huge lawsuit
 

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Re: looking for site to buy good training equipmen

Quote:From just my experience, Just good bonding & a good bark will do. My GSD was never trained for protection (I didn't want a dog bite law suit), but she nows on her own how to keep strangers & aggressers away without the bite.
For the most part, when you own a German Shepherd, you really don't need to 'train them to protect you'. If you have bonded with your dog, they do it naturally, sometimes unfortunately when you don't expect it.

I rescued Thor from a vile environment at age 11 months. Purchased by a young Marine gal at age 2 mos., he was left with a caretaker at 3 mos when his mommy was deployed to Iraq. My daughter was attending a Marine gathering when the caretaker said, "I have to get rid of that d*mn dog." When Kat asked which dog, the caretaker pointed out to the north 40 where this pup was tied to a tree. And when Kat asked why, caretaker said her owner was killed in Iraq and not coming back for the dog. Kat (bless her evil heart) said, "My mom loves German shepherds...she'll take him."

Thus I ended up with a pup on my doorstep who had been isolated most of his life, was thin as rail and whose hair had been chewed off his back from anxiety. He was not housebroken, had no clue about commands, and had no social skills. After a visit to the vet, who assured me he would survive with TLC, but it would take a year to untrain him of his bad habits and another to teach him new ones, I wondered what I had gotten myself into. Nevertheless, he was a beautiful boy with a shy, loving personality who seemed to want to please. I turned on whatever 'alpha' techniques I knew and slowly he became 'my dog'.

He is now almost 4 years old. He is well mannered (most of the time..*chuckles*), playful and certainly warns me with his deep bass barks when anyone is wandering around the house that he doesn't know. At least it's only that now...there was a time when he barked at anything and everything, including leaves blowing past the windows. But he has never been aggressive.....at least not until recently.

I was talking to a neighbor with Thor at my side...a neighbor we have met up with on our daily walks many times. Thor usually sits at my side, yawning with boredom. But on this particular day, the neighbor had an handful of long branches and sticks and as he gestures with his hands when he talks, was swinging that handful too close to me to please Thor. My mild mannered, sweet boy's ears came up, and without any warning, lunged at the neighbor and bit his knee. As I watched the blood dripping down the neighbor's leg, I was in shock.

Interestingly, the neighbor (who I rushed to our local doctor's office) told the doctor and the animal control folks (automatically phoned in a situation like this) that it was his fault...he should not have been swinging sticks in my face. Thor thought his 'mom' was threatened and protected her. Even more interestingly, the animal control said the same thing. Thor has met the same neighbor since with no sign of aggression, in fact, back to the yawning boredom. But the neighbor is now being more careful in his presence, not a stick in sight. *grins*

I guess the point of this diatribe is that Thor was never 'trained' to protect me, but when he thought I was being threatened, he automatically went into protect mode. I recall my sister-in-law being asked by strangers, "Does your dog bite?" Her response has always been, "He never has but he is a dog. That's what dogs do when they feel a threat. So stand back please and don't approach him..or me.. too quickly."

Wise words, I've always thought. I think I'm going to try to use that when I'm out and about with Thor.
 

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Re: looking for site to buy good training equipmen

I was in a situation somewhat similar to yours. Initially my GSD was very mellow, and I was starting to think he hung around with the labs too much. Then there were a few incidents similar to yours and Timber became protective. He chased one guy away from my truck (at night) while we were on vacation, and when suprised a few times absolutely stood his ground. I became concerned and hired a behavior expert to evaluate his actions.

During the evaluation she told me never to again use the term aggressive or mean. That my dog simply felt threatened or was protecting me. That if he was truly aggressive or mean, the results would have been much worse.

I tend to feel the same way about Thor.
 

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Re: looking for site to buy good training equipmen

Originally Posted By: Hatterasser
Quote:From just my experience, Just good bonding & a good bark will do. My GSD was never trained for protection (I didn't want a dog bite law suit), but she nows on her own how to keep strangers & aggressers away without the bite.
For the most part, when you own a German Shepherd, you really don't need to 'train them to protect you'. If you have bonded with your dog, they do it naturally, sometimes unfortunately when you don't expect it.
This is not true , and also dangerous advice. Just because you have a GSD that barks at certain situations does not mean he will "protect" you.

A real ppd needs first and foremost the right temperament, and proper nerves.

Then it's training, training, training, and some more training.

How can you know the way your dog will react to gunfire, multiple assailants, slick surfaces, dark paths, uneven footing without testing and training?

How much punishment can your dog take before he runs?
Will he run, or stay and fight?

These and many more question are answered through training for specific scenarios, so you know your dog's weakness and strength.

I have seen countless dogs that put up a pretty good show, and look mighty scary, but when faced with a serious and experienced "bad guy", they turn tail and run. And this is in training not real life.

Regarding a lawsuit if your dog bites when he is not supossed to, then it your fault alone. A ppd does not know if your friend slapping you on your back is a threat or not. You must have 110% control of the animal at ALL times period. Same thing with a loaded gun, you don't leave it laying around till someone picks it up and disaster strikes. Because in essence a ppd is a loaded gun.
 

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Re: looking for site to buy good training equipmen

Hatterasser I would read your dog's behavior much differently. Dogs often use yawning as a calming signal if they are stressed..so if he yawned often in this man's presence it could have been a sign that he was not entirely comfortable with him.
 

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Re: looking for site to buy good training equipments

kool, the main thing is that you enjoy your pup, and have fun with her. You can start some foundation training, which is developing her prey drive. You can get a bite-rag (soft, leather cloth with a rope attached to it) for her to bite and pull. Play lots of tug with her! Let her win ALL the time! This will help build her confidence.

And socialize socialize socialze! A confident dog knows what is normal and what is a threat. A confident dog is confident no matter what!
 

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Re: looking for site to buy good training equipmen

I agree with phgsd. Your dog MAY have been bored, but maybe he was stressed!

You have done very well with him, there sure has come a long way since you had him, but please, don't laugh off this incident, there is cause for concern. The lunging and biting without warning is worrisome. This may be fear biting. If your dog wanted to protect you, he would have first barked or growled in warning at this man to back off before resorting to a bite.
 

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Re: looking for site to buy good training equipments

Originally Posted By: CastlemaidA confident dog knows what is normal and what is a threat. A confident dog is confident no matter what!
Not really, dogs see a threat where there is none, and vise versa.

Drunks are good examples because their behavior is so out of the norm. So are the elderly and handicapped.
 

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Re: looking for site to buy good training equipments

Originally Posted By: simon
Originally Posted By: CastlemaidA confident dog knows what is normal and what is a threat. A confident dog is confident no matter what!
Not really, dogs see a threat where there is none, and vise versa.

Drunks are good examples because their behavior is so out of the norm. So are the elderly and handicapped.
I have to admit that my experience with dogs is very limited, but neither my previous dog nor my present dog have ever shown any insecurity around drunks, physically handicapped persons, or elderly people. Personally, I would be concerned about a dog's nerve's if, for example, someone in a wheelchair or a person with a developmental disability was seen as a threat. I believe that dog's can see past the physical surface of a person and get a gist of a person's mind-set and intentions.
 

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Re: looking for site to buy good training equipmen

Quote:How can you know the way your dog will react to gunfire, multiple assailants, slick surfaces, dark paths, uneven footing without testing and training?

How much punishment can your dog take before he runs?
Will he run, or stay and fight?
Oh dear, Simon, I live on an island with a year round population of 600 folks. It's not exactly Iraq or some other war site. We're hardly ever likely to run into the type of circumstances you are describing. But I will admit you do have a point...."Just because you have a GSD that barks at certain situations does not mean he will "protect" you." I certainly am not a dog trainer and am merely going by the advice and information of those who 'know' Thor. (What's a ppd, by the way?)

And phgsd.... when I used the phrase 'yawning in boredom', it was merely a figure of speech. I didn't mean to imply that Thor was actually yawning, but that is an interesting piece of advice. I never knew that before and will keep an eye on him in the future to watch for such behavior.

Quote:The lunging and biting without warning is worrisome. This may be fear biting. If your dog wanted to protect you, he would have first barked or growled in warning at this man to back off before resorting to a bite.
Castlemaid....There's another piece of new information for me to consider. I have to admit, the series of events occurred so quickly that both the neighbor and I were caught by surprise and I know I was totally unprepared. We all attributed the quickness of events to the fact that neighbor stepped forward (wielding his 'weapons') very suddenly and the dog had no time to growl or bark....he just wanted neighbor to move back. For all I know, it may have been himself he was protecting and not me at all. I have no idea what happened to him during the time he was tied to that tree for 9 months. For all I know, he may have been beaten by branches/sticks and WAS fearful for his own welfare.

He has never shown any hostility to anyone before this occasion, be it a biker, a stroller or anything else....though he does bark at white Ford trucks. Another neighbor owns one and has a very aggressive dog who hangs out the window as they pass us, barking insanely. Thor tends to take this personally and thus, he eyes all white Ford trucks with a wary eye. *grins*

An amusing side story.........when I was young, my brother had a shepherd who always behaved like an impeccable English butler - with one exception. Whenever the garbage truck came, he would watch intently as the garbage man tossed the waste into the truck, get back into the truck and put the truck in gear. Then the silly dog would move. He'd run to the front of the truck, put his front paws up on the grill and stand there barking. He would not let the truck move until we called out, "It's alright, boy. He can take the garbage. Get down." At which point, he would look over his shoulder at us as if confirming what we said, and only then would he let the truck go. Was he being protective of our possessions, even the garbage? We always wondered. *laughing*

But I'm glad to see so many responses. Every little bit helps, especially for those of us who have had puppies/dogs as pets but have never been trained personally to 'raise' dogs. Even though every question posited receives many conflicting and contradictory responses, this site is still a boon to all of us dog owners.
 

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Re: looking for site to buy good training equipmen

PPD means Personal Protection Dog.

And yes when dogs yawn they are usually stressed and uncomfortable.

Excluding of course when they are sitting on the couch watching t.v. with you, then yawning means nighty night.
 

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Re: looking for site to buy good training equipments

Originally Posted By: YvetteDo you want to do Schutzhound? For a title? or just for guarding your home? If this is for home? From just my experience, Just good bonding & a good bark will do. My GSD was never trained for protection (I didn't want a dog bite law suit), but she nows on her own how to keep strangers & aggressers away without the bite.
The best thing about protection trained dogs (I have two I trained) is they are trained when to actually protect you or spouse, to attack upon command or if someone should grab you, break into your home or car, and when to actually bite and to stop an attack upon command. I would feel much better if taken to court because I can prove my dogs did what they did because I told them to or my life or my spouse's was in danger. They will not bite by accident as an untrained dog may do. Ever hear of a trained police dog bite by accident?
 
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