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They are rare because they are considered a fault. Good breeders do not breed them nor breed for them. They also will avoid breeding on lines that produce livers and blues.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Yea I figured that. But, I strongly disagree with "show standards". I mean, look at the terrible things "show standards" has done to GSDs. Sloped backs, bad hips, hock-walking, so sad. Gsds are not what they used to be due to show standards. I think the liver color is beautiful, and should be bred.
 

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Liver is beautiful. So are the blues. But that doesn't change that they are considered a fault. It's not about "show standards". Whether you agree with it or not, it's the BREED standard.

Bad hips having nothing to do with conformation. Zero. And the working lines follow the breed standard just as the show lines do.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Good point. I just feel show standards have ALOT to do with the putting down of "livers, blues, etc". Because they are faults.i just don't agree with the fact they exclued them bc they have faults. But livers are absolutey beautiful. I'd love to see more of the rare colors of the GSDs
Liver is beautiful. So are the blues. But that doesn't change that they are considered a fault. It's not about "show standards". Whether you agree with it or not, it's the BREED standard.

Bad hips having nothing to do with conformation. Zero. And the working lines follow the breed standard just as the show lines do.
 

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To answer the "how rare," I've seen over 200 GSDs in high-kill shelters in my state in the past 3 years. I've seen exactly one liver - and one panda (and I think I even know who bred the panda). I can't recall any blues off, the top of my head.

One of the friends I rescue with has a "thing" for rare coat colors, so if there's an oddball in a shelter within 1000 miles, she somehow knows about it....because 300 people on FB have told her about the dog. LoL
 

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Almost all liver and blues are going to be poorly bred specimens. This is because reputable breeders won't breed for them (for better or worse it is a disqualifying color fault, so they won't intentionally breed for it. Show AND working line. I know blue and fawn dobermans have problems with going bald and other health related genetic problems related to the dilution of color and higher rates of skin cancer. I imagine similar issues are attached to GSD dilutes.)

So only back yard breeders trying to cash in on 'rare' colors are breeding them, and besides most not health testing, they probably are not following other parts of the standard such as temperament (most important tied with health), size, correctness, etc.
 

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Almost all liver and blues are going to be poorly bred specimens. ... I know blue and fawn dobermans have problems with going bald and other health related genetic problems related to the dilution of color and higher rates of skin cancer. I imagine similar issues are attached to GSD dilutes.)
This is not correct. Livers and blues do not have skin issues nor any genetic issues that correlate with the color.

Livers and blues pop up with good breeders. Breeding on Pike can throw livers.
 

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This is not correct. Livers and blues do not have skin issues nor any genetic issues that correlate with the color.

Livers and blues pop up. Breeding on Pike can throw livers.
Thanks for the info on the health effects with GSD. My experience was with dobermans where there are problems attached with dilution. Good to know GSD escape this! :)

And yes, I know they do pop up from reputable breeders now and again. I just mean MOST since there are breeders online specifically marketing they breed for 'rare' colors, usually also along with "old fashion LARGE" dogs.
 

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Dobermans definitely have something going on with the dilutes.

I know what you meant. It was clear in your second paragraph. :) And I agree with it. I'm just saying they do occasionally pop up in good breeders and good lines.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Well I'm just learning away on this post lol. I was just wondering because I bought a liver 4month old gsd pup that was anorexic, had a raspy bark like a resp. Infection,had blood in his stool, the whole 9. But this was from the breeder not bc of his genes. Its day 6 and he has gained weight, barks NORMAL due to the antibiotics we give him (took 4 days for his bark to come), he can even hear better because we cleaned out his MITE infested ears, i mean he has done a complete 360. & we are loving him like no tomorrow. We figured if it wasn't for us, he wouldnt have even been alive another week. It was bad!
This is not correct. Livers and blues do not have skin issues nor any genetic issues that correlate with the color.

Livers and blues pop up. Breeding on Pike can throw livers.
Thanks for the info on the health effects with GSD. My experience was with dobermans where there are problems attached with dilution. Good to know GSD escape this!


And yes, I know they do pop up from reputable breeders now and again. I just mean MOST since there are breeders online specifically marketing they breed for 'rare' colors, usually also along with "old fashion LARGE" dogs.
 

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enjoy your pup, but don't breed him.
 

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Almost all liver and blues are going to be poorly bred specimens. This is because reputable breeders won't breed for them (for better or worse it is a disqualifying color fault, so they won't intentionally breed for it. Show AND working line. I know blue and fawn dobermans have problems with going bald and other health related genetic problems related to the dilution of color and higher rates of skin cancer. I imagine similar issues are attached to GSD dilutes.)
Blue and liver coats aren't disqualifying faults, they're considered serious faults right along with lack of confidence, faulty gait, short tails etc. It's the lack of pigmentation in their noses (must be predominately black) that keep them out of the ring, not the color of their coats. The only disqualifying coat color is white. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Thx for the info! So they are only disqualified because of their noses? Not because of anything else?
Almost all liver and blues are going to be poorly bred specimens. This is because reputable breeders won't breed for them (for better or worse it is a disqualifying color fault, so they won't intentionally breed for it. Show AND working line. I know blue and fawn dobermans have problems with going bald and other health related genetic problems related to the dilution of color and higher rates of skin cancer. I imagine similar issues are attached to GSD dilutes.)
Blue and liver coats aren't disqualifying faults, they're considered serious faults right along with lack of confidence, faulty gait, short tails etc. It's the lack of pigmentation in their noses (must be predominately black) that keep them out of the ring, not the color of their coats. The only disqualifying coat color is white.
 

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Thx for the info! So they are only disqualified because of their noses? Not because of anything else?
The AKC breed standard for the GSD only has 6 disqualifying faults including "dogs with noses not predominately black" Blues and livers don't have black noses.
A serious fault isn't all that much better than a disqualifying fault but there is a difference. :)

AKC GSD Disqualifications
Cropped or hanging ears.
Dogs with noses not predominantly black.
Undershot jaw.
Docked tail.
White dogs.
Any dog that attempts to bite the judge
 

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Blue and liver coats aren't disqualifying faults, they're considered serious faults right along with lack of confidence, faulty gait, short tails etc. It's the lack of pigmentation in their noses (must be predominately black) that keep them out of the ring, not the color of their coats. The only disqualifying coat color is white. :)
Thank you for correcting me! I was under the wrong impression and certainly don't want to spread misinformation. I guess that makes sense, what with the whole "there is no GSD of a bad color" philosophy we started with. Of course, that make the fact that whites can't be recognized GSD by the SV even more ironic to me! That's ok, I love the BBS!

ETA (saw a part of your post I missed) Lol! The irony! White GSD even have black noses hehe :rolleyes:
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Wow! Can't believe some ppl dock their GS tails! It is too bad they don't allow livers, blues, whites, pandas, etc. I think that would make the shows alot more fascinating! But some don't agree and standards are standards. Personally I think they are beautiful, and I love every color of the german shepherd.
Thx for the info! So they are only disqualified because of their noses? Not because of anything else?
The AKC breed standard for the GSD only has 6 disqualifying faults including "dogs with noses not predominately black" Blues and livers don't have black noses.
A serious fault isn't all that much better than a disqualifying fault but there is a difference.


AKC GSD Disqualifications
Cropped or hanging ears.
Dogs with noses not predominantly black.
Undershot jaw.
Docked tail.
White dogs.
Any dog that attempts to bite the judge
 

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Wow! Can't believe some ppl dock their GS tails! It is too bad they don't allow livers, blues, whites, pandas, etc. I think that would make the shows alot more fascinating! But some don't agree and standards are standards. Personally I think they are beautiful, and I love every color of the german shepherd.
No idea what the deal was with the docked tails or why that ended up in the standard. Can't picture a GSD without a tail. :(
I like the variations in coat color too-they're all unique in their own way.
 
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