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Discussion Starter #1
I took a walk at lunchtime (I work in NYC), and passed by a pet store.

In the window, fast asleep, was a gorgeous GSD puppy.

I was told she's 3 months old and costs $3,500.

Whoa!
 

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And she probably came from a USDA-approved puppy mill, with 400-800 dogs on site. The breeder probably gets $50-$100 per puppy, and all the rest of that $3500 is going to the pet store, transporters, and the wholesaler.

As hard as it is, just walk away. Whoever buys that pup, and whenever, whatever money changes hands for that pup, another bitch will be put in a pen and bred, and 7-14 more puppies will be raised in semi-sterile to squalid conditions in a hopeless, loveless mill churning out puppies, whether they are to code or not.
 

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First of all you're in NYC...

Second of all, I've noticed that there are two types of pet stores. The ones that want to make a very high profit on each dog and move a few a month, and the ones that want to make a small profit on each dog and move many in a month. There was a pet store where I used to live that has since closed, but their sales pitch was a very high price at 2 months of age, then lower at 3, and then at 4, and so on and so on until the dog gets sold. They loved running "50% off promotions" on a monthly basis to clear some of their "inventory."

I walked in there once and asked how much a GSD puppy was, it was $3500 at 4 months of age. Guy had been there for 2 months already...really sad actually. First thing she did though before even telling me the price was put him in a exercise pen with me in it. Try to make me "fall in love" so I wouldn't care about the huge price.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Makes me sad to see them in those conditions.

If I win the lottery one day:laugh:, I want to buy a big house with lots of land, and rescue as many dogs as I can so they can have a good life.
 

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Any puppy they offer financing for, run away fast.
It's sad but only keeps puppy mills alive and healthy - but not the dogs they produce unfortunately :(

A thread was just made about a purebred puppy a man found in his local pound, the dog is spayed, vaccinated, etc. and I'm willing to bet he didn't pay $3,500 for her!
 

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Discussion Starter #7
When we adopted Joey from the family member last year, we gave him money (nowhere near $3,500), but we got a trained, housebroken, healthy dog that we love to pieces.
 

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The sad thing is there is so many people that have no idea puppies in pet stores come from puppy mills.
I really wish there was a bigger campaine to educate people.
No I really wish there was a law that puppies were NOT to be sold in pet stores. But of course that would just create some black market puppy smuggling.
 

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I have a friend that purchased a pup from a store, and swore up and down it wasn't a puppy mill dog. I asked how she knew, her response, "Everyone that's met him doesn't think he is, and the vet ran some tests that would've told him that he was from a puppy mill." Never did elaborate on the tests, but although he is a very friendly dog (yorkipoo) he just turned one and I would hope that he was like that as a puppy. She finally realized he was a puppy mill dog after he got some really bad knee problems that cost her thousands of dollars to fix (again, this dog just turned one in February). Sadly though she hangs on to the fact that this knee problem is "common" in little dogs, I told her its common in older little dogs, not one year olds. It's kind of like HD in big dogs, although its common, it usually presents itself at an old age, not when the dogs are under a year.
 

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Our area got a Petland, complete with a full set of all breeds of puppies that soon became ill and were treated at a local vet who notified papers, etc.

These puppies were purchased by all manners of people who turn around and gripe at a $300 fee for a rescued puppy. It makes me sick and sad.

Then the puppies were dying all over of parvo. And people picketed the Petland and it sits empty now amid a parking lot of weeds. I am so proud of those who went and picketed. I'm too far away to have done that daily but some dedicated folks did, and educated the public while they were at it (we do that anyway).

What gets me is people will shell out $1000 + on a pet store puppy - then complain if our fees are $200-300, and they want a cheap puppy to keep their pet store puppy company during the day while they work.

I'm sorry. I'm just discouraged in general with rescue and slow adoptions, yet people will pay these outrageous prices for a petstore puppy. Do they think it's better because it's at the store??
 

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Do they think it's better because it's at the store??
Yes I really do believe this is the case. People seem to feel that just because it's a shelter or rescue, there should be low to no cost for the dog. Very ironic when these same people have no qualms about shelling out thousands for puppy mill dogs that are less vetted, mistreated and unhealthy.

This would be an interesting test. What if you put one of your rescue babies in their display window with a 3000$ price tag? I bet you'd easily get inquires by people who didn't know any better and just look for the fancy packaging...

I wonder this about different breeders and their prices. Some borderline puppy mill "reputable" breeders go through the alphabet several times over EACH year. I have no idea how a breeder can go through that many litters and justify that EACH breeding is contributing to better the breed.
Funny thing is that some of these "reputable" breeders are the ones selling their pups for 4-5k when it's no better than a dog from a smaller scale breeder that actually puts the time and effort into their dogs.
 

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Our area got a Petland, complete with a full set of all breeds of puppies that soon became ill and were treated at a local vet who notified papers, etc.

These puppies were purchased by all manners of people who turn around and gripe at a $300 fee for a rescued puppy. It makes me sick and sad.

Then the puppies were dying all over of parvo. And people picketed the Petland and it sits empty now amid a parking lot of weeds. I am so proud of those who went and picketed. I'm too far away to have done that daily but some dedicated folks did, and educated the public while they were at it (we do that anyway).

What gets me is people will shell out $1000 + on a pet store puppy - then complain if our fees are $200-300, and they want a cheap puppy to keep their pet store puppy company during the day while they work.

I'm sorry. I'm just discouraged in general with rescue and slow adoptions, yet people will pay these outrageous prices for a petstore puppy. Do they think it's better because it's at the store??
They should not use the word "fee". They should call it "Shelter support donation" or something like that. Its all in the salesmanship. You say fee and I instantly feel ripped off. Its not even suggestive that I bought something like "price". "price" means I give you money, but I get something back. Fee almost has undertones of punshiment to it.. its like a softer version of "fine". you say "donation" and I instantly feel a surge of accomplishment as though I made the world a better place, whether it was voluntary or not.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
I don't have it, but unfortunately, I think some people have a negative perception of a "shelter" dog or "rescue" dog.

If the opportunity to adopt Joey hadn't arisen, we would have adopted a rescue.
 

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I got my GS from craigslist because all the major GS rescues around me turned me down. I wanted a middle aged dog and didn't care if it's mixed but must be GS. I also didn't care to buy from a professional breeder as I don't want to pay $1,000+ and prefer a dog that needs a home instead.

I was turned down for two reasons - 1) in process of looking for a new house (but have stated I won't give up on a dog for moving reasons), 2) already own a small dog.

I think the rescue rules are sometimes a bit inflexible and perhaps that's necessary as that may be the few indicators they get to decide whether a person is good or not. In that case, certain people, like me, who I believe are devoted owners, cannot rescue certain breeds and must look to other means.

My first dog came from a shelter. The small dog I have now came from a pet store. I won't do it again after being educated. Hope we can channel all our energies (positive and negative) into thinking how we can help people make an informed choice.
 

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Strange because I rarely see puppies being sold in pet stores anymore-which is a good thing-I always felt sorry for them as you saw them getting a bit older-
 

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Also with the rescues, I think some people don't want to go that route because they hear about all the problems some adoptive rescuers have with the dogs they ended up with. Granted, that probably has more to do with the rescue not placing correctly or something, but even on the forum here I've seen a few stories about rescues not going well.
Don't get me wrong, I think rescues and shelters (well, non-kill anyway) are great and do awesome things. All dogs and most cats my family has had came from the Humane Society and I would someday like to adopt a rescue. But sometimes people will be scared away by things they read/hear and decide to go another route.
As to the pet stores, do you really KNOW that they all come from puppy mills? That seems kind of an unfair generalization to me. Do I think most pet stores are overpriced and pushy? Yes. Do I think some aren't always honest about the animals they sell people? Yes. But that doesn't necessarily mean they get their animals from awful, terrible puppy millers.
OK, I will shut up.
 

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Also with the rescues, I think some people don't want to go that route because they hear about all the problems some adoptive rescuers have with the dogs they ended up with. Granted, that probably has more to do with the rescue not placing correctly or something, but even on the forum here I've seen a few stories about rescues not going well.
Don't get me wrong, I think rescues and shelters (well, non-kill anyway) are great and do awesome things. All dogs and most cats my family has had came from the Humane Society and I would someday like to adopt a rescue. But sometimes people will be scared away by things they read/hear and decide to go another route.
As to the pet stores, do you really KNOW that they all come from puppy mills? That seems kind of an unfair generalization to me. Do I think most pet stores are overpriced and pushy? Yes. Do I think some aren't always honest about the animals they sell people? Yes. But that doesn't necessarily mean they get their animals from awful, terrible puppy millers.
OK, I will shut up.
Yeah...we do know they come from puppy mills. Try to find a store selling dogs with AKC registration, won't happen. Each one uses some sort of registration that gives you a pedigree but isn't worth anything. But the biggest reason we know they come from puppy mills, good breeders would never sell their puppies to a wholesaler or a store in order to get them sold to the public. A breeder that has 2-4 litters a year, doesn't need a middleman to get rid of their pups. They also want to know exactly where the dog is going, so that they control the purchase.

Like its been said, pet stores stay open because people don't want to do the research and go to a breeder, but it also doesn't help when they get turned down by rescues due to something the rescue sees that would be wrong for that dog. Rescue says no? Walk in and buy a dog where no one cares how you treat it, how you vet it, what you feed it, and what you do with it at all once you walk out their doors and they have their money.
 

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OK, I get the pet stores now. :) I didn't know because I'm obviously not a breeder and it seemed like a generalization.
And I do understand getting turned down by a rescue if they think you're not a good match, though some might not understand. I was saying that I've seen and read things about rescue dogs not doing well in their new homes and having to be returned to the rescue or shelter, which can be hard if you've become attached to the dog, not to mention it could and probably is hard on the dog. This could be a reason why some people don't necessarily go to rescues. Note the "some," not all.
 

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Rescue says no? Walk in and buy a dog where no one cares how you treat it, how you vet it, what you feed it, and what you do with it at all once you walk out their doors and they have their money.
Sometimes it's necessary as the rules the rescue use it not bullet proof or fits all cases. I feed my dog raw organic, I bought a new car for it so it has more room in the back, I made my next home purchase with her needs for bigger space in mind and my current place is a single family with a yard also, I'm spending $2K in training (she's 6 months now), and much more money on other things. I work from home full time so is around plenty. I spend a lot of time with her daily and she gets alone well with my other small dog though I do have to watch their play in case the GS gets too rough. I've taken time off from work at the beginning to help her adjust. I don't think I'm any less devoted to her than the other GS owners that the rescue may approve. A negative blanket statement made by this poster is not a fair representation of owners like me. It seems to convey that I'm irresponsible just because I disagree with the rescue. I did go out and bought a dog so I can avoid those rules that I felt did not correctly assess my ability to own a GS. And I bought it from a craigslist person that couldn't keep it anymore (they weren't breeding for $). A piece of paper, the application, is not always the best or only way to assess a person's ability to own a GS.
 
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