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From those of you that had both, is there a big difference between raising them? I spoke to DutchKarin about her dutch, she gave me some good thoughts and advice on the DS. But I wouldnt mind hearing from the rest of you who've had both.
 

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It's getting closer and I would love some info from experienced owners. I posted this thread months back and maybe it got lost in the mix.
 

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They are comparable to the Mailinois. More intense than any working line GSD. If you want a solid working dog to work all day, go for it. That's how I know them.
 

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I still don't understand why you are choosing a dutchie over a nice GSD?

Anyone can certainly choose any dog they want, but there are plenty of more intimidating-looking GSDs that would fit the bill of "PPD" but not have some of the quirks of the Dutchies or malinois. And I am a malinois person all the way, but I've seen many homes not work out for these breeds. And then the dog pays. Often with his life.

It's a life choice, not just a dog, and you need to figure out the dog, deal with the dog. This might help- read this article on living with a "championship" malinois...Michaela Kuncová about Jaguar de Alphaville Bohemia - ProfiDOG

Quote (on Jaguar a titled stud dog):
"The Jaguar’s dominance manifests itself mainly at home. He guards everything from his kennel to toys. I have tried to sort this out as soon as possible, but we got into the situation where things were getting worse and worse. Eventually, I let it go and that is what helped. I started to ignore such tense situations and converted them into the game. The more I tried to sort this problem out and direct him, the worse it got."

This type of scenario, I've seen it, and it's unique to each dog but with malinois, the more you "fight" or create conflict, the more they'll step it up. You need to figure out how to be clear and fair without fighting with the dog. It's not something easy to explain to someone who has never seen it. I'm not one of those people who thinks only top-dog-trainers should get a malinois, but it takes a lot of dedication and just a prong, that's not going to cut it as far as training goes.
 

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I still don't understand why you are choosing a dutchie over a nice GSD?

Anyone can certainly choose any dog they want, but there are plenty of more intimidating-looking GSDs that would fit the bill of "PPD" but not have some of the quirks of the Dutchies or malinois. And I am a malinois person all the way, but I've seen many homes not work out for these breeds. And then the dog pays. Often with his life.

It's a life choice, not just a dog, and you need to figure out the dog, deal with the dog. This might help- read this article on living with a "championship" malinois...Michaela Kuncová about Jaguar de Alphaville Bohemia - ProfiDOG

Quote (on Jaguar a titled stud dog):
"The Jaguar’s dominance manifests itself mainly at home. He guards everything from his kennel to toys. I have tried to sort this out as soon as possible, but we got into the situation where things were getting worse and worse. Eventually, I let it go and that is what helped. I started to ignore such tense situations and converted them into the game. The more I tried to sort this problem out and direct him, the worse it got."

This type of scenario, I've seen it, and it's unique to each dog but with malinois, the more you "fight" or create conflict, the more they'll step it up. You need to figure out how to be clear and fair without fighting with the dog. It's not something easy to explain to someone who has never seen it. I'm not one of those people who thinks only top-dog-trainers should get a malinois, but it takes a lot of dedication and just a prong, that's not going to cut it as far as training goes.
I appreciate the advice. I trust the breeder to set me up with the right pup. I still might get a GSD instead because that is all I know but I'm 95% set on ds/mal. Obviously it's more dedication than just a prong collar, I only advised some members on getting it because they seemed to have no control over a young dog during walks and such. I have been to IPO meets and met some of these dogs and was very impressed with them.
Also I want a challenge. And even some of the best GSD breeders that I know who test their dogs for everything had them die at 6-8 years old. I don't mean to offend anyone but deep down I feel that the GSD has been mostly ruined by bad breeding. The dutch/mal, in my opinion is still one of those "untouched" breeds. Again, this is just my opinion but it's how I feel and by no means am I saying one is better over the other.
 

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I appreciate the advice. I trust the breeder to set me up with the right pup. I still might get a GSD instead because that is all I know but I'm 95% set on ds/mal. Obviously it's more dedication than just a prong collar, I only advised some members on getting it because they seemed to have no control over a young dog during walks and such. I have been to IPO meets and met some of these dogs and was very impressed with them.
Also I want a challenge. And even some of the best GSD breeders that I know who test their dogs for everything had them die at 6-8 years old. I don't mean to offend anyone but deep down I feel that the GSD has been mostly ruined by bad breeding. The dutch/mal, in my opinion is still one of those "untouched" breeds. Again, this is just my opinion but it's how I feel and by no means am I saying one is better over the other.
IMO, the problem is that those people need help teaching their dogs to loose leash walk which is rather simple and easy using a variety of techniques. A prong, for them, is only a management tool. If they successfully manage the dog with a prong, they will never train it to loose leash walk. That is very unfair to the dog especially when many people fail to remove the prong collar after walking.
 

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IMO, the problem is that those people need help teaching their dogs to loose leash walk which is rather simple and easy using a variety of techniques. A prong, for them, is only a management tool. If they successfully manage the dog with a prong, they will never train it to loose leash walk. That is very unfair to the dog especially when many people fail to remove the prong collar after walking.
I completely agree, I don't even suggest touching a prong until AT LEAST 6 months of age and that is only for serious problem pups (the earliest I ever used one was when the pup was 8 months old). But some owners here are small in stature with 70lb puppies dragging them around a crowded city so you have to see their side of it as well.
 

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I completely agree, I don't even suggest touching a prong until AT LEAST 6 months of age and that is only for serious problem pups (the earliest I ever used one was when the pup was 8 months old). But some owners here are small in stature with 70lb puppies dragging them around a crowded city so you have to see their side of it as well.
I am small in stature and my largest dog is @ 95#s. Sometimes I take two or three of my dogs with me. In the past I have owned Great Danes, a Rott, a Wolfhound and other large breeds. It is not about size but training.

Training loose leash walking is easy. Taking a prong on and off is off is frequently what is a challenge for many people.

IMO, most leash pulling is a trained behavior. If somebody spent 6 months training their dog to pull, they can take a couple of weeks to train it not to pull and be better off for it.
 

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I completely agree, I don't even suggest touching a prong until AT LEAST 6 months of age and that is only for serious problem pups (the earliest I ever used one was when the pup was 8 months old). But some owners here are small in stature with 70lb puppies dragging them around a crowded city so you have to see their side of it as well.
That says more about those dogs owners than it does the tools.

A (Skilled) owner could use a Prong Collar on a puppy. You don't correct puppies if they get that ... no big deal. But ... "most" owners you know ... so yeah best advice is "don't."

But 70 lbs .... if (walking the dog properly) were merely about the size of the dog??? Then all those "Bichons, Shih Tzu's, etc" and such would dld not be straining at the end of flexi leashes. It's not about a given tool. The problems often start at the other end of the leash. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #14
I am small in stature and my largest dog is @ 95#s. Sometimes I take two or three of my dogs with me. In the past I have owned Great Danes, a Rott, a Wolfhound and other large breeds. It is not about size but training.

Training loose leash walking is easy. Taking a prong on and off is off is frequently what is a challenge for many people.

IMO, most leash pulling is a trained behavior. If somebody spent 6 months training their dog to pull, they can take a couple of weeks to train it not to pull and be better off for it.
That says more about those dogs owners than it does the tools.

A (Skilled) owner could use a Prong Collar on a puppy. You don't correct puppies if they get that ... no big deal. But ... "most" owners you know ... so yeah best advice is "don't."

But 70 lbs .... if (walking the dog properly) were merely about the size of the dog??? Then all those "Bichons, Shih Tzu's, etc" and such would dld not be straining at the end of flexi leashes. It's not about a given tool. The problems often start at the other end of the leash. :)
Ok guys, lets not get off topic here please. This isn't about when and if you should use a prong collar. Let's just agree that the prong is often the last resort. I used a prong when I lived in a crowded city and it was dangerous to the dog having him pull and lunge at people. This was mostly my fault because I let anyone and everyone pet him as a small pup so he expected love from strangers. My philosophy is different today.

I just want to know if there is a difference in raising a mal/dutch over a WL GSD.
 

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Ok guys, lets not get off topic here please. This isn't about when and if you should use a prong collar. Let's just agree that the prong is often the last resort. I used a prong when I lived in a crowded city and it was dangerous to the dog having him pull and lunge at people. This was mostly my fault because I let anyone and everyone pet him as a small pup so he expected love from strangers. My philosophy is different today.

I just want to know if there is a difference in raising a mal/dutch over a WL GSD.
Aww ...no problem but you brought it up ... just saying. :)
 

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I still don't understand why you are choosing a dutchie over a nice GSD?

Anyone can certainly choose any dog they want, but there are plenty of more intimidating-looking GSDs that would fit the bill of "PPD" but not have some of the quirks of the Dutchies or malinois. And I am a malinois person all the way, but I've seen many homes not work out for these breeds. And then the dog pays. Often with his life.

It's a life choice, not just a dog, and you need to figure out the dog, deal with the dog. This might help- read this article on living with a "championship" malinois...Michaela Kuncová about Jaguar de Alphaville Bohemia - ProfiDOG

Quote (on Jaguar a titled stud dog):
"The Jaguar’s dominance manifests itself mainly at home. He guards everything from his kennel to toys. I have tried to sort this out as soon as possible, but we got into the situation where things were getting worse and worse. Eventually, I let it go and that is what helped. I started to ignore such tense situations and converted them into the game. The more I tried to sort this problem out and direct him, the worse it got."

This type of scenario, I've seen it, and it's unique to each dog but with malinois, the more you "fight" or create conflict, the more they'll step it up. You need to figure out how to be clear and fair without fighting with the dog. It's not something easy to explain to someone who has never seen it. I'm not one of those people who thinks only top-dog-trainers should get a malinois, but it takes a lot of dedication and just a prong, that's not going to cut it as far as training goes.
Doesn't really matter, but I wasn't the one who brought it up.
 

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From those of you that had both, is there a big difference between raising them? I spoke to DutchKarin about her dutch, she gave me some good thoughts and advice on the DS. But I wouldnt mind hearing from the rest of you who've had both.
That's probably a fairly limited amount of people, that have owned both breeds.
 
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