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Discussion Starter #1
Do breeders often take back pups or it is a rare occurrence? I am thinking about going into breeding in the next 2 years. Not for Shepherds but for Dogue De Bordeaux or French Mastiffs. I am just starting to research the breed intensely and have a breeder/shower friend that I will probably acquire a pup from in June, and learn all I can from. The stud of his kennel has a .39 Penn Hip Score. The bitch has a Penn hip score in the 80th percentile.

Anyways back to the original question...how many have you taken back? Have you ever had a hard time placing pups?
There is a true need in the US for a good breeder of Bordeaux as the breeders I have seen hardly ever do Penn Hip or OFA testing, which is just horrible. I truly believe that I can help improve the quality of the breed if I do decide to take the plunge. Of course all Penn/OFA testing as well as many other tests would be run on my Dogues. Right now the things that worry me are not having the room if I end up taking back numerous pups for one reason or another, and the economy making the purchase of even stellar quality Dogues none existent. Thoughts and critiques?

The down side is that I would no longer foster due to health concerns for the Dogues.
 

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Originally Posted By: Tri-shepherdDo breeders often take back pups or it is a rare occurrence? I am thinking about going into breeding in the next 2 years.
My sister shows Gordon Setters and has raised 3 or 4 litters from her show dogs. She has not had the need to take back any puppies however she has taken back several adult dogs from people who no longer wanted them for various reasons. She has it in her contract that she will take the dogs back at any time. She took one back that the owner when against the contract and took him to a shelter when he was moving ~ the shelter fortunately asked for the breeder's name ~ then called Gordon Setter Rescue who then called her.

She easily re-homed all but 1 which she kept. The one she kept was about 2 years old when she took her back. The people no longer wanted her because "she growled at someone who walked past her crate while she was chewing on a rawhide". Dazzle (old owners named her) is the sweetest dog and is doing well in agility & obedience training.
 

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This thread doesn't answer your question directly, but had some interesting thoughts:
http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubb...&gonew=1#UNREAD

What is this breed bred for? What kind of breed tests do they do to check temperament?

I always wonder that for some of the small breeds too...

Wow, just read the description of the breed a bit. I would think as a breeder (or rescue) the match making of owner to dog would be A. of paramount importance and B. you would have to screen through a ton of people looking for ego enhancers/macho/macha issues to find homes that were right for the dogs

I have wondered about that too, if as breeders you would be looking at adult returns, after mistakes had been made even more than puppy returns.
 

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I agree that a good breeder will take back dogs at any time in the dog's life. I have met a breeder (of dobies) who was flying an 8 year old dog back from across the country to spend his senior years with her since his family's situation had changed.

So it's not just a puppy thing.
 

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The oldest I've had come back was a 2 yr old male, couple was in seminary, had to move in with parents who had hybrids and didn't get along with strange dogs. He's now with a sch. judge who hopes to get his sch1 done shortly and qualify for nationals with him.
 

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We've never had cause to take back a dog we bred while still a pup, but have taken back 3 older ones. One at 12 months who turned out to be too much dog for the family, one at 16 months who we were co-owning with a friend but his situation changed and he could no longer keep her, and one at 2 years whose owner turned out to be a scumbag who abused and neglected the dog.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
The Dogue De Bordeaux is a Molosser that was originally breed as a Guard dog. They are breed for their courage, loyalty, and their strong sense of territory. They should be powerful and athletic. They should never shows signs of nervousness or aggressiveness. They need to have a strong solid temperament making them have the ability to guard without aggression unless it is absolutely necessary. Their overall nature is that of a gentle giant.

Basically they are breed for a strong solid intimidating athletic body with a solid unwavering temperament. Loyal and protect yet gentle.

Don't know if that made sense. They are the Turner and Hooch dogues. They are giant lovable dogues that are meant to be imposing and not vicious.
I don't know that any formal checks are done to check for their temperament in the US. They are meant to only be breed by a breeder that socializes them at a very early age and raises them indoors interacting with people for the first 8 weeks. They should be calm, gentle, and patient.
 

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I hope this isn't a hijack, or if this question is too personal, just ignore
. When you (breeders in general, not singling anyone out) say "take back" a dog, are you refunding the original purchase price or is the owner just turning the dog over to you?
 

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I don't so much worry about placing them to the right family, because being in rescue I have learned how hard to question in what areas. A Dogue would not be happy in a single household with no other companions or one that is not experienced with strong owners used to handling slightly stubborn strong willed Dogues. The owners that mention anything about wanting a "guard dogue" even if that is what they are breed for would not get a pup from me.

Was it easy for everyone to place the older dogs after they were returned? I have absolutely no problem taking them back except for the limit of room that I have. I would expect them to be brought back if there were ever any problems.
All the pups will be microchipped before they ever leave my property.
I would be highly PO'd if one of mine ever ended up in a shelter.
I can tell you the guy I am looking at being my mentor has four and when I went to spend time with him and the Dogues they are very intimidating, the ground will literally shake when they bark....and then you are drooled on as soon has he grants you access to his yard....and I mean a lot of drool! Their temperament is solid and desired...except his were not raised with cats and when he tried to bring one in they did chase it to the ends of the earth. They never once hurt it, but did not want it in their territory. On the flip side there are plenty that live with tiny kittens.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Originally Posted By: ahlamaranaI hope this isn't a hijack, or if this question is too personal, just ignore
. When you (breeders in general, not singling anyone out) say "take back" a dog, are you refunding the original purchase price or is the owner just turning the dog over to you?
Yeah it would depend on the situation. If there is a defect in the dogs health or temperament, depending on contract, you would refund all or some of the purchase price. If they are wanting it rehomed due to their personal circumstances that is no fault of the breeder, they sign over rights. Also stated on a "good" contract.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
If anyone is more interested look at the difference in the Dogues that are breed in France, Czech and Germany compared to the breeders you see in the US. I know there are bad ones everywhere, but it just seems to me that the better breeders that take the time to breed a good Dogue mostly seem to be overseas...which would make sense since it is not an American breed. The span in difference is just amazing to me though.
 

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I have right of first refusal in my contract which means that hopefully the owner and I can agree to terms. At bare minimum it should mean that I'm informed and can involved in the process of finding a new home.

My oldest litter is only a year old so it's not something I have had to deal with yet but I would work with the family and try and do anything possible to get the dog back here where I could rehome him or her. I think breeders are a little better set up to vet prospective owners then the normal family.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Originally Posted By: Betty101I have right of first refusal in my contract which means that hopefully the owner and I can agree to terms. At bare minimum it should mean that I'm informed and can involved in the process of finding a new home.

My oldest litter is only a year old so it's not something I have had to deal with yet but I would work with the family and try and do anything possible to get the dog back here where I could rehome him or her. I think breeders are a little better set up to vet prospective owners then the normal family.
I totally agree with that. Not that if I found a great home and their situation drastically change I wouldn't trust them, but breeders just have more exposure and better connections to screen and find the better home than just rehoming it to one of the neighbors.
 

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If you are worried about not having the room or time to keep and/or take back an entire litter then don't breed. If you have the room to deal with some at any time during their lives then just limit how much you breed. Also, if you can't afford to do any of the above, don't breed. You never know when you might have to buy back one of your dogs just to get them out of a bad situation.

I have had to take back one young dog.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Originally Posted By: lhczthIf you are worried about not having the room or time to keep and/or take back an entire litter then don't breed. If you have the room to deal with some at any time during their lives then just limit how much you breed. Also, if you can't afford to do any of the above, don't breed. You never know when you might have to buy back one of your dogs just to get them out of a bad situation.

I have had to take back one young dog.
Agreed. The money is not a problem, nor is the time involved. I would have room to take back one or two at any given time but of course everyone here knows there are so many variables in breeding that it is something that must be thought out at all angles before it is undertaken. That is my goal over the next 18-24 months is to study the breed very in depth and look at it from all possible angles.

Do must breeders here breed every 2nd or 3rd cycle? I was thinking every 2 or 3 cycles would be the ideal, but of course there are a lot of opinions on this. Also with Bordeaux's they have a life span of only 6-8 years with an age of 10 yrs being ancient. So looking it from that perspective any female I had would only be breed a maximum of 4 times since she would not be breed until almost 2 or over. They also sometimes have C-sections needed due to the large heads.

It is something I have wanted to do since I was 8 years old and my sisters friends mother breed Collies. I don't have the fondness for Collies that I do for Bordeaux's and Shepherds. But I did learn a lot from watching her over the years. I would never take on breeding Shepherd with all the different lines and different standards. I would be lost on where to start to better the breed so more power to the Shepherd breeders here. There is so much involved with all the lines. Kind of makes my head spin! LOL!
 

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I actually breed when I want another dog to work. Nike had two litters. One in 2003 and one in 2004. I got what I wanted out of her second litter. Then I bred her daughter, Vala, in 2008 and she will have another litter in about 2 weeks. IF I breed Vala again it probably won't be until 2011. I don't look at the cycles so much as the age of the bitch and what I want out of the litter.
 

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Talking about space, if you don't have the space for say 4 or more extra large dogs, I wouldn't breed either. I wouldn't imagine there is an overwelming number of qualified people that want a Douge. What happens if you have a litter of say 8 but can only find homes for 3 and end up having to keep the rest for several months or a year before you can find homes for them?
 
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