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I would imagine not too common since that is not something that is popular in the show dog world. Those dogs would be traffic stopping gorgeous but would get hot in the summer time. I know my red and black coatie does.
 

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extremely rare. if they even exist at all. mixed lines would be more likely, but still rare. you’d need black and the LC gene to show up on both sides.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for the replies! A prospective puppy is LC BLK WGSL from the margman line - I haven't heard of too many of those and wanted to get opinions from the community :)
 

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Thanks for the replies! A prospective puppy is LC BLK WGSL from the margman line - I haven't heard of too many of those and wanted to get opinions from the community :)
posting the pedigree may get you some insight from some of the experienced members. like i said, i’d be surprised if there weren’t some working lines or ASL somewhere in there. but i’m very curious.
 

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Yes, this dog is from Russia from what I was told at a conformation show last Summer. He was super handsome and had 'presence'. Owner's website:
Vom Dinaburg German Shephers
 

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You want a working dog? I thought I saw this in a previous post. If so, and you want a LC black, why not just get a working line?

If you do want a working dog, then make sure you make them prove that these dogs can indeed work. I'm not impressed with this Margman line so far.

If all you want is a pet, this will be fine. The temperament seems good but they don't have super strong nerves and seem to stress easily.
 

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You want a working dog? I thought I saw this in a previous post. If so, and you want a LC black, why not just get a working line?

If you do want a working dog, then make sure you make them prove that these dogs can indeed work. I'm not impressed with this Margman line so far.

If all you want is a pet, this will be fine. The temperament seems good but they don't have super strong nerves and seem to stress easily.
No, I'm looking for SL at the moment. Based off Dam's side, I'm assuming the lack of titles, convinces you this line is not impressive for work? Just curious as I'm still learning pedigree's.

I am looking to potential work the dog, but lots of obedience and training/trainability. I particularly want high drive for the work
 

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No, I'm looking for SL at the moment. Based off Dam's side, I'm assuming the lack of titles, convinces you this line is not impressive for work? Just curious as I'm still learning pedigree's.

I am looking to potential work the dog, but lots of obedience and training/trainability. I particularly want high drive for the work
No. I didn't look at the pedigree. I'm going off of personal experience with the line and what I've seen in person from different females, same Margman sire.

These are not high drive dogs for work. Again, I see very low thresholds for stress in just learning simple foundation obedience tasks. I see dogs that you have to work your butt off to get to work in obedience with low food drive. Dogs that won't engage or grip. That stuff is all genetic.

Good pets. Not working dogs.

So you say you want a dog for work but the first word of your response is "No" when I asked if you wanted a working dog. Not a working line...but a working dog. So again, if the above in your response is what you want, and you like the LC blacks, why not look at a working lines that will give you the appropriate drives that you want.

If you want to continue with this breeding then you need to make the breeder prove to you that these dogs have food drive, biddability and drive to work. That they can handle simple stress like teaching new obedience exercises.
 

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No, I'm looking for SL at the moment. Based off Dam's side, I'm assuming the lack of titles, convinces you this line is not impressive for work? Just curious as I'm still learning pedigree's.

I am looking to potential work the dog, but lots of obedience and training/trainability. I particularly want high drive for the work
You are totally contradicting yourself.

The pedigree is showline - so you get an oddity - a black showline.....somehow the black recessive seems to have been captured from 10-12 generations back - if the pedigrees are to be believed....


So - you are getting what you say you want.


But what you say you want to do??? While it is a lottery ticket - I would say - No - you are NOT getting trainability, high drive........or ability to accept any stress in training - not in obedience, not in protection....typical showlines will show some drive, but it cannot be molded, structured, shaped or corrected without the dog just giving up....I have not personally seen any individuals from this Russian kennel....but have seen many showline dogs....a few with alot of aggression who can do bitework, but out of anger and not particularly correct or controllable.

You will be getting a pretty coated pet IMO...not a dog to do any sport or activity with.

sorry - just my experience watching many many many showlines in both schutzhund and in AKC obedience/rally


Lee
 

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It is rumored that the Russian showline blacks are a dominant black gene which in turn leads to more rumors.
 

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No. I didn't look at the pedigree. I'm going off of personal experience with the line and what I've seen in person from different females, same Margman sire.

These are not high drive dogs for work. Again, I see very low thresholds for stress in just learning simple foundation obedience tasks. I see dogs that you have to work your butt off to get to work in obedience with low food drive. Dogs that won't engage or grip. That stuff is all genetic.

Good pets. Not working dogs.

So you say you want a dog for work but the first word of your response is "No" when I asked if you wanted a working dog. Not a working line...but a working dog. So again, if the above in your response is what you want, and you like the LC blacks, why not look at a working lines that will give you the appropriate drives that you want.

If you want to continue with this breeding then you need to make the breeder prove to you that these dogs have food drive, biddability and drive to work. That they can handle simple stress like teaching new obedience exercises.
Interesting, my dog I would not say has a ton of food drive. But he is so easy to teach, practice, compete in obedience. It seems to come really naturally and easily to him. I am sure he is not a high drive dog. I wonder what the difference is. When I go to train sometimes he will pick up an exercise and start better than what we finished last time, like he has been thinking about it on his own time which I am sure isn't possible.

He is super super biddable and has a lot of desire to do what I want and he is incredibly honest--if he knows how to do it right he will.

I think the act of figuring out what I want and doing it is its own reward to him ?
 

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Interesting, my dog I would not say has a ton of food drive. But he is so easy to teach, practice, compete in obedience. It seems to come really naturally and easily to him. I am sure he is not a high drive dog. I wonder what the difference is. When I go to train sometimes he will pick up an exercise and start better than what we finished last time, like he has been thinking about it on his own time which I am sure isn't possible.

He is super super biddable and has a lot of desire to do what I want and he is incredibly honest--if he knows how to do it right he will.

I think the act of figuring out what I want and doing it is its own reward to him ?
I'm not sure the correlation between the dogs of the Margman line that I've seen and yours? All dogs are different. My post was directly related to this specific line.
 

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I'm not sure the correlation between the dogs of the Margman line that I've seen and yours? All dogs are different. My post was directly related to this specific line.
Correlation just that he isn't a working line dog and doesn't have much food drive. He is not even remotely related to the Margman line I would assume.

maybe I interpreted what you said wrong-- that not much food drive was contributing to the handlers having to work super hard to teach these dogs obedience?
 

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Correlation just that he isn't a working line dog and doesn't have much food drive. He is not even remotely related to the Margman line I would assume.

maybe I interpreted what you said wrong-- that not much food drive was contributing to the handlers having to work super hard to teach these dogs obedience?
Again, I was talking specifically about the Margman line puppies I saw. I'm not going down the rabbit hole of generalizing to all show lines. If your dog works with no food drive, that's great.
 
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