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If you say his name and NO! You are saying him/his being NO! not the action he did. This is why it's more of a long haul back to commands for you. You're giving messages that personally attack his being (you don't like him!) not his action - and that's why he runs.... you hate him! not his action....:(
 

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DT what everyone is trying to explain is that you have inadvertently taught Shadow to run out of the yard.It became a default behavior when he hears your angry voice IN THAT SPECIFIC SCENARIO.It's now an ingrained habit;angry voice= run.
In order for it to stop you must create a new behavior.Something as simple as just calling him to you instead of yelling at him.Or tossing him a favorite toy"Shadow catch!"Break the cycle.
I've got a poop eater too,lol!And on occasion he will still get in a lick or (Yuck!) pick up a piece.Then it's just"Samson leave it" in a normal voice.
Selzer's post makes so much sense.If something just isn't working rethink it and change it up.I think you're stuck in a rut expecting Shadow to run and thinking a new word or punishment will work.IMO same thing different day.
We've all been there!Having to rethink and see from a new perspective.
 

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Discussion Starter #43
Thank you guys, we've been working on the "leave it" part since they where puppies as they used to like to chew on rocks lol. I will try and apply that to the poop eating and let you guys know how that works out!
 

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Shadow absolutely knows his boundaries, however it is willful dis-obedience when he runs off after I yell at him for eating poop. Let's take dogs out of the question. Let's say you tell a kid he can't have a cookie, but when you're looking away he takes a cookie. Does he not know that he can't have it? Or is he willfully being disobedient? Now let's take it back to the dogs. Shadow knows the boundaries and respects them up until he eats poop and I yell his name in the I'm angry voice.
If you want to cling to that thought, it's your choice. If you want to solve the problem, stop trying to humanize your dog and try to think like a dog. Do you know what proofing is? It's when you test a dog on a task or behavior and they get it right every single time in any setting. Your dog may be aware of the boundaries you have set up in your mind, but it's clear he doesn't respect them. His fear of your angry voice is far greater than his acceptance of boundaries. Dogs aren't children, they aren't people and they don't willfully disregard boundaries. He is reacting to you chasing him, not intentionally crossing an invisible boundary. It's up to you. If you want to stop the running behavior, then you need to teach the dog not to run off.

He's not pooping constantly, so if you keep him on the leash until he goes and you are sure he's not going to go again, then remove the leash and make him wait for a release command, he may go back to observing the boundaries. If you take the leash off and immediately let him run around, he will also learn to run off the second he is unleashed and you will have inadvertently taught another bad behavior.

I don't care if you leash him or not, it's your dog. But if you take it away too soon, you will not have stopped the problem. It can take a very long time to be sure your dog is proofed on anything.

Got behaviors? Want proof? | Karen Pryor Clicker Training
 

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You know what. Get an e collar, have someone responsible show you how to use it and correct him from a distance a second before his mouth touches the poop. Use a quiet voice. You need to stop him before he eats it not after. Once you raise your voice you have become ineffective.
I wouldn't start using an ecollar with this dog, even with help. The move to Idaho will have to go through Utah cause that's probably where he'll end up.
 

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Discussion Starter #46
So little update, as if the universe put the stars against me yet oddly for me, I let the dogs out and Dargun goes poop. Shadow doesn't touch it so I figure I'll leave it until we're done then I'll pick up it just to see if Shadow will try to eat it and if my new method will work. About 10 mins later, Shadow goes to eat it and I attempt the new method. I say Shadows name with a snap to get his attention and say "leave it" in a normal voice. Not the I love you voice or the I'm mad, voice, just a normal voice. He looked around like he does when he would bolt but he dropped it and went back to playing with Dargun. I'll keep doing this and report back in a week!
 

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Discussion Starter #47
If you want to cling to that thought, it's your choice. If you want to solve the problem, stop trying to humanize your dog and try to think like a dog. Do you know what proofing is? It's when you test a dog on a task or behavior and they get it right every single time in any setting. Your dog may be aware of the boundaries you have set up in your mind, but it's clear he doesn't respect them. His fear of your angry voice is far greater than his acceptance of boundaries. Dogs aren't children, they aren't people and they don't willfully disregard boundaries. He is reacting to you chasing him, not intentionally crossing an invisible boundary. It's up to you. If you want to stop the running behavior, then you need to teach the dog not to run off.

He's not pooping constantly, so if you keep him on the leash until he goes and you are sure he's not going to go again, then remove the leash and make him wait for a release command, he may go back to observing the boundaries. If you take the leash off and immediately let him run around, he will also learn to run off the second he is unleashed and you will have inadvertently taught another bad behavior.

I don't care if you leash him or not, it's your dog. But if you take it away too soon, you will not have stopped the problem. It can take a very long time to be sure your dog is proofed on anything.

Got behaviors? Want proof? | Karen Pryor Clicker Training
Again, I have tested both dogs many times, and they have passed a test not set by me. I run the RC truck down the street and they don't run after it. When the lady came with her dog they didn't chase them. It's only when Shadow got in trouble did he leave the area. You may call this not knowing boundaries, but at the end of the day it's willful disobedience.

I had both dogs trained really well. My brother and my dad both work out of state so that left me to watch the dogs as no one else in the house will sit out with them. I still have to work, so when I'm mowing lawns or something I had them follow me and lay down until I went out of site. I know they both respect me and my commands that they understand (for example they won't roll over if I say roll over because I haven't taught them). I think the other guy hit the nail on the head- I was scaring Shadow with the I'm mad voice and like any living creature that is scared, he ran.
 

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Again, I have tested both dogs many times, and they have passed a test not set by me. I run the RC truck down the street and they don't run after it. When the lady came with her dog they didn't chase them. It's only when Shadow got in trouble did he leave the area. You may call this not knowing boundaries, but at the end of the day it's willful disobedience.

I had both dogs trained really well. My brother and my dad both work out of state so that left me to watch the dogs as no one else in the house will sit out with them. I still have to work, so when I'm mowing lawns or something I had them follow me and lay down until I went out of site. I know they both respect me and my commands that they understand (for example they won't roll over if I say roll over because I haven't taught them). I think the other guy hit the nail on the head- I was scaring Shadow with the I'm mad voice and like any living creature that is scared, he ran.
Well, good, then you have no more problems and your situation has been resolved. Since you apparently know more about dog psychology than I do, I have said as much as I can here. Good luck with your dog.
 

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Well, good, then you have no more problems and your situation has been resolved. Since you apparently know more about dog psychology than I do, I have said as much as I can here. Good luck with your dog.
This isn't about who knows what or who doesn't know what. I am explaining the problem and you didn't understand what I was saying so I had to explain it to you in another way.

By the way, this is the internet. I don't know you and you don't know me. I have been a dog psychologist for the past 20 years, you wouldn't know the better. I take information that people give and I see if it's reasonable or not. I ask how you punish your dog and you go on about how my dog does not know his boundaries because he runs off. I'm trying to keep you on track here, but I got more useful information from other people. Thank you for your effort professor.
 

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This isn't about who knows what or who doesn't know what. I am explaining the problem and you didn't understand what I was saying so I had to explain it to you in another way.

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This is the problem. What you think you proved in those experiments is that the dog is 100% on boundaries.

What you actually proved? Your dog knows not to chase the RC car when it is driving outside the yard. He knows not to chase that lady when she walks by with her dog.

What we know? Your dog knows that leaving the boundary is the way to escape from your anger.
 

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I ask how you punish your dog and you go on about how my dog does not know his boundaries because he runs off.
He knows his boundaries, with out a doubt. Its wherever he wants it to be or until animal control catches him. Whichever comes first. I don't have to know you to read what you typed.
 

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I just want to know what OP is going to do when some day Animal Control calls to tell him that they have his dog. They scraped him off the road a few blocks away. I wonder if OP will think back to all the knowledgeable people who gave him sound advice on here and wonder if he should have given the advice some serious consideration rather than argue who was right and who was wrong on this thread.
 

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OK, I think this thread and the sarcasm have run their course. OP, if you want to post about your progress, please do so in a new thread.

Thank you,

ADMIN Lisa
 
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