German Shepherds Forum banner

1 - 16 of 16 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I am trying to get opinions from people who are much more knowledgable about pedigrees then me. So if you have a few moments to take a look and comment, I would appreciate it.

I am looking for a dog that I can do some schutzhund and possibly move on to some protection work. So, without further delay, here is a link:

The Mating Pedigree

Thanks in advance for your help and comments.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,884 Posts
well, I don't know how much more I might have learned here about actually understanding all that but let's see...
FH is a advanced tracking degree, SchH3 is the highest title, IP titles
are the International version of SchH titles, even I have heard of
vom Gräfental, all but the Dam are titled. DDR means old East Germany.
As for all the German words:
Mittelgroß, mittelkräftig, gestreckt und nicht vollendet fest. Sehr schöner Kopf mit korrektem Ohr und kräftigem Fang. Normale Brustaustiefung, Unterbrust ist kurz. Beide Unterarme nicht korrekt. Normale Winkelungen der Vor- und Hinterhand. Temperamentvolles Gangwerk mit noch genügender Schrittweite. Sicheres Wesen, TSB ausgeprägt; läßt nicht ab. V. Unterstützt durch beeindruckende schwarz-graue Farbe sehr schöner Ausdruck.

when you copy/paste that into FreeTranslation.com it means:
Medium-sized, mittelkräftig, stretched and not completes firmly. Very beautiful head with correct ear and strong capture. Normal Brustaustiefung, lower breast is short. Both forearms not correctly. Normal sign lungs of the forehand and hindquarters. Spirited gear work with yet sufficient Schrittweite. Certain being, TSB stamped does not let; off. V. Expression very beautiful supported by impressing blackly gray color.

So sounds like sables...


Körbericht: Mittlere Größe und Kraft, gutes Verhältnis, trocken und fest. Gute Winkelungen der Vor- und Hinterhand, gerade Front und Trittfolge, raumgreifende, kraftvolle Gänge. TSB ausgeprägt; läßt ab.

comes back:
Körbericht: Middle size and power, good ratio, drily and firmly. Good sign lungs of the forehand and hindquarters, just front and step consequence, room grasping, powerful gears. TSB stamped lets; off.


Übermittelgroß,mittelkräftig,gehaltvoll,betont männliches Gepräge. Sehr schöner Ausdruck,harmonisches Gebäude,normale Gefügefestigkeit,korrekte Front,genügend ausgeprägter Widerrist,etwas abfallende Kruppe. Etwas steiler Oberarm,gut gewinkelte Hinterhand,vitales Gangwerk. TSB ausgeprägt;läßt ab.

Stamp masculine Übermittelgroß,mittelkräftig,gehaltvoll,betont . Building harmonious very beautiful expression normal structure stability correct front of sufficient distinct Widerrist, something Kruppe falling away. Gear work vital somewhat steep waiter arm well gewinkelte hindquarters. TSB stamped lets off.

lousy translator! anyone know what TSB stamp lets off might mean?

Without seeing them I'm guessing sables, in the middle of the standard's weight range, plenty of drive for the work. Some folks say
DDR's tend to mature slower, but generalizations are often based on
too few anecdotal experiences to be accurate, generally.


Anyways, sounds like an import, likely expensive. Lots of good breeders here, who speak English. Likely when you look at those pedigrees, someone's already made the trip.

Hope this helps. When I first came year, it was all Greek to me.
This <span style="color: #3333FF">Title acronym list page</span> helped, as do the translators.

You can also plug registration numbers in OFA's site to find or verify
hip ratings if they have been OFA'd.

Good luck in your adventure!
Welcome to the board!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,782 Posts
Originally Posted By: dOg
lousy translator! anyone know what TSB stamp lets off might mean?
I don"t know the new EXACT words but it but the reports used to say something like Courage, hardness, and fighting drive pronounced. Now it says TSB instead, I think it basically means the same thing, just in a more "politically correct" form.
"Lets off" means the dog DOES "out" in the protection work. The one that says the dog does NOT "let off", means the dog does NOT "out". (Or at least didn't THAT DAY.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,452 Posts
There is no reason that a puppy from this breeding shouldn't be able to do sch or protection work. It helps to pick a puppy that shows inclination for grips and drivey. this is mostly East German lines and they are slow to mature but you may have a better protection dog than Sch dog but both should be attainable. Good Luck...
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter #5
Thanks for the comments. They are in fact all dark sables. The pups are all just over a week old so no way to know their individual drives and temperment.

But I am feeling more confident after speaking to a few people and getting similar responses.

Thanks again for all your help.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,782 Posts
HomeK9,

Have you done much research into this breeder? IMO, they have one of THE worst "contracts" I have EVER seen.

This part is just one of the "issues" I have with the contract:

"The buyer agrees to feed a premium puppy for for at least the first 6-8 months of life (I.e. Hills, Eukanuba, Purina) and then a good adult dog food from one of the previously listed brands. Any failure to do so voids all guarantees on the puppy."


(The misspelled words are those of the breeder. I just coppied and pasted.)
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
I talked to a few people who have purchased pups from the breeder, and they are happy with the pups and the communication from the breeder. It is my understanding, that the portion you are referring to is if you choose to have a hip guarantee. The list of foods is not all inclusive, but an example of the brands of food. I guess he means no supermarket or generic brands? I will clarify that with him, but as I am not purchasing the dog for breeding purposes, I was not going to obtain the hip guarantee. If the hips are bad, which I am leaning towards them being decent based on the hip ratings in the pedigree, I will have already put two years into training and loving the dog and would want to keep him, even if only as a pet.

I found the contract to be very odd, in comparison with other contracts I have read from breeders. However, like I said, others who have purchased from him are very happy with their pups.

Based on what I have posted above, how do you feel about it? Does the explanation regarding the food and the optional hip guarantee make sense to you?

I truly appreciate your comments, as you appear more knowledgable about these things then me. This will be first purchase where I have not seen the pup in person before purchase.

Thanks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,509 Posts
I agree with BlackGSD about the food and as I mentioned in your other post I want my breeder to have the same standard for all the pups in the litter, not just the ones the choose.
I think that is very odd on the hips/elbows/etc. I can see it on ears/testicles on companion pups but not hips/elbows!!

Lee has a nice litter coming this summer:
http://www.wolfstraum.net/h-litter.html
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
11 Posts
Discussion Starter #9
Ok, thanks for the input. I am going to look at some other breeders before I make a decision. You have given me some things to think about.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,782 Posts
I agree with Barb.

To me, it sounds like they are selling a guarantee. For a certain amount you get a guarantee and for a different amount you don't.

I don't have an issue with a breeder selling a coated pup or one that only has 1 testicle for less money. But that is not the same as selling a guarantee. (From other breeders that I know, even though a coated pup or one with only 1 testicle would cost the buyer less money, they would STILL get the same hip quarantee and the rest of the puppies.)

Just out of curiousity, how much cheaper are the "no guarantee" pups?


As far as the "food" thing, Purina IS a supermarket brand. I wouldn't feed my dogs ANY of those brands and really question a breeder that would recommend that junk.

Also wanted to add, just because the hips of the dogs in the pedigree are good, does NOT mean that you can't get a pup with bad hips.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,755 Posts
Originally Posted By: BlackGSDHomeK9,

Have you done much research into this breeder? IMO, they have one of THE worst "contracts" I have EVER seen.

This part is just one of the "issues" I have with the contract:

"The buyer agrees to feed a premium puppy for for at least the first 6-8 months of life (I.e. Hills, Eukanuba, Purina) and then a good adult dog food from one of the previously listed brands. Any failure to do so voids all guarantees on the puppy."


(The misspelled words are those of the breeder. I just coppied and pasted.)
I do not feel there is anything wrong with their contract. They simply want their puppies to be fed a premium food and they give some examples, Pro Plan is a Purina product. They guarantee puppies to *pass* OFA. It appears they may offer puppies at below market value without a guarantee, this is just an option.

Cherri
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,782 Posts
Well that is NOT the way I understand it. It says you have to feed "one of the previously listed brands". And if you don't your guarantee is void.

Sure Pro Plan is a Purina product, but so are Moist and Meaty and Fit and Trim.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
3,755 Posts
Originally Posted By: BlackGSDWell that is NOT the way I understand it. It says you have to feed "one of the previously listed brands". And if you don't your guarantee is void.

Sure Pro Plan is a Purina product, but so are Moist and Meaty and Fit and Trim.
The brands were given as examples, hense the I.E.

"The buyer agrees to feed a premium puppy for for at least the first 6-8 months of life (I.e. Hills, Eukanuba, Purina) and then a good adult dog food from one of the previously listed brands. "

I am sure this breeder would not have a problem with any premium food being used but is opposed to cheap, generic type foods or poor grade foods.

Fit and Trim is *nothing* like Pro Plan of course.

Cherri
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
14,509 Posts
I know what IE means, but to me "previously listed" means only those that are actually identified


But again, also goes back to why they don't have the same hip/elbow warrenty for all pups.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
7,782 Posts
Originally Posted By: Barb E.I know what IE means, but to me "previously listed" means only those that are actually identified
That is my point EXACTLY. I too know what IE means, Learned that is school in the 70's and early 80's.


But as Barb said, "previously listed" means just that! (At least in the "real world".)

And I agree, there is a difference between Pro Plan and Fit and Trim, but personally I wouldn't call either one of them "premium" kibbles.

The way the contract is worded, you could feed the dog Canidae, but if it ended up not "passing" OFA, they could refuse to honor the contract since it basically says failure to feed one of the "previously listed brands" voids all guarantees on the puppy.

There is also conflicting talk about the time frame one has if they get the pup and it is sick.

One place says this: "... the above described animal may be returned in the first 7 days after delivery Prepaid to the seller, for any major health reason that is determined and verified in writing by a licensed Veterinarian. Buyer shall take the puppy to a Veterinarian to be checked within the first 7days of delivery/ receipt if at all possible, and failure to do so, is an acceptance of health, anatomical make-up, appearance, and temperament of the above-described animal during said 7days."

Then farther down on th epage it says this: "If the puppy becomes sick, is injured, or dies or has to be put to sleep for any reason other than those stated in the guarantee after the initial 72 hour period, the seller has no obligation to replace the puppy and will be relieved of all responsibility to do so." As we all know, 72 hourse is 3 days, not 7.

Obviously it is untimately up to the OP. Wether they decide to get a pup from this breeder or another one, I wish them all the luck and happieness(sp) in the world with their new pup.
 

·
Super Moderator
Joined
·
18,680 Posts
Most of the time when I see two different prices for either a warrantee or not, the latter is 1/2 the price of the former. Often people would rather pay less and take the chance than be trapped into a contract. Maybe they are only interested in a certain litter or are the type that knows that there is no such thing as a guarantee with genetics.

I wouldn't feed any of the mentioned brands to a dead dog, but that is just my opinion.
If I were the OP and interested in a puppy from this kennel I would ask for clarification on this part of the contract IN WRITING and signed.
 
1 - 16 of 16 Posts
Top