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An opinion piece from the Washington Times I came across today -
ORSI: Going to the dogs? - Washington Times

The author proposes that police dogs should not be honored as heroes or be honored with a service and a funeral because they are "simply trained animals" who don't have the reasoning or free will to choose to perform a heroic act, and that to honor them diminishes the service of human officers.

Opinions?
 

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I think it's not the weirdest idea that the author has. Such as, early marriage is best, 18 to 25 - "there is no doubt in my mind that late marriage has wreaked havoc on people's souls" :thinking: and: "Parents should let them see early marriage as good and desirable and not warehouse them at home or in college, which does no one any good in the long run." Yep, that pesky college: no good. :nono:

Why should we not wait until we are more mature and established before marrying? Because "Like anything else, we learn best by doing and any professional will tell you that to be good at anything you must begin when you are young". Plus, of course it squanders your ability to be fruitful and multiply, at least if you wait until marriage to procreate.
 

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The author considers it an "affront to humanity" that a K9 officer gets a full funeral and a "tragedy" that a thug who was trying to kill police officers was also killed? Give me a break.
 

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Several years ago, in our town, a young man who went to school with my little sister and was good friends with my brother's step son, well I guess he dropped some bad acid -- too much rat poison, and became Schizophrenic. Well one day, he decided to kill himself, walked outside with a gun and shot the owner of a fast food joint, Mr. Olson, who was going for his morning walk.

The police came and Levi was shooting at them. They sent Cero after him, and he shot and killed the dog, a nice black and tan GSD, well known in the community.

The shot and killed him then.

I was glad that they killed him, kind of. I mean, he would have probably been on trial with the death penalty involved because he killed someone and killed the dog. Killing the dog wouldn't do it, but I think that maybe it would have been enough to make it capital murder in Ohio. No one wants to see a police dog die, except career criminals, but no one wants big publicity about the dog killing murderer getting death either.

I think the whole thing was tragic. I am sorry about the dog. But I think that the biggest tragedy was to the family of Mr. Oleson.

The dog was raised and trained for police work and handled by someone who knew all along that the dog might take a bullet for him someday. It does not make it any less bad, but police dog handlers are employed to risk their dogs' lives any day.

Mr. Oleson was just going for a walk.

The funeral for the dog was huge, parades with law enforcement from states away. A big memorial to the dog is in the center of town next to the courthouse. A picture of the dog is in the post office. The tribute to the dog is huge. No one even knows when or where Mr. Oleson was laid to rest.

The dog was ours though. He visited the schools and was used for demos. People would see the dog and the police officer. People liked the dog. People donated for the k9 program. There is ownership in that. And maybe that dog DID take a bullet that would have gone into a human officer. And maybe the dog's life was thrown away. But if Levi was my son, I think that I would rather they try to bring him down alive by sending in the dog, than just shooting him.

Do the dogs know that they are participating in something that might kill them? No. I do not know that they have a concept for death. Are they highly trained? Yes. Does it really matter if a dog is purchased and trained to do a job? Does it matter that they do not realise that they may die doing what they are supposed to?

I don't think that it matters that dogs do not understand everything about what they are doing, and whether it is training or heroics. I think in some ways it helps the officers/dog handlers to see their dogs honored. And it also helps the community. If any program really needs community support, it is the K9 program. I think that honoring dogs that die while performing their job, helps communities to understand how important these programs are.
 

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I remember when The Washington Times was a respectable publication.
 

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I disagree with the author in that article. There are just some dogs who will not do what those K9s do.
 

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I don't think the Author gets your average dog would NEVER be able to make it as a canine cop, or that dogs can and will exert free will because they are animals of course. K9 dogs actually undergo more training than a cop does, and deserve recognition when they fall in the line of duty. After all they don't get a paycheck for their heroism or taken out for a beer.
 

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I think the author of this article can kiss my right butt cheek.

First, he obviously has never had any real contact with dogs and certainly never with the highly intelligent german shepherd. He obviously has never experienced the love, loyalty and companionship of a dog.

Second, Time magazine had a cover article recently about how many animals (dogs included) certainly can problem solve. And obviously have a more complex thought process then humans ever gave them credit for.

Third, for him to call the death of the thug who was trying to kill the police officers a tragedy and then downplay the death of the animal that was most likely instrumental in saving those officers lives.

Now I am sure that dogs have no concept of their own mortality in situations like that but I feel it is certainly appropriate to honor him for saving those officers lives and ensuring that they got to go home to their families that night. And if he is more concerned with the death of a teenage criminal who was trying to kill the police officers, well, then I say he is full of horse poo.
 

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I think the author of this article can kiss my right butt cheek.

Now I am sure that dogs have no concept of their own mortality in situations like that but I feel it is certainly appropriate to honor him for saving those officers lives and ensuring that they got to go home to their families that night. And if he is more concerned with the death of a teenage criminal who was trying to kill the police officers, well, then I say he is full of horse poo.
I had to laugh out loud at that. Good thought.

However, I am more concerned with the tragedy of the human life than the dog life. Even a teenage criminal shooting at police officers. So that makes me full of horse poo. I do not fault the officers that killed Levi. He was shooting at them. It makes it no less tragic. The guy had a three year old daughter. And he was sick, clearly mentally ill, before he decided to go down shooting.

Maybe people who are so messed up in their minds are better off dead, I don't know, but it is tragic all the same. Some teenage foolery, messing around with some stupid concoctions literally ruined his life.

My brother's step son and some other kids also dropped the same bad acid. And he also has been diagnosed now with schizophrenia. It is a horrible disease. And you can say it was his own fault for taking drugs. All I can think is that kids really, really do not think about all the possible things that might happen if they do something.

So tragic yes. Is his life worth the dog's life? Yes. Is his life worth a police officer's life? No, not if he is shooting at them. They have to fire back.
 

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i couldnt finish the article. I think the author of the article is an idiot. Those dogs are not simply your classic pet. They actually work. They do a great deal. Just like our military and police, firefighters and EMT's go out there and put their lives on the line and spend long hours away from their family... I believe these dogs are K9 cops for a reason. They do the work (even if they think of it as fun) and their lives are on the line just as the human cops. I get the feeling the author is just resentful.
 

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It is sad when any mentally ill person ends up in that situation. There is no real evidence of LSD causing schizophrenia. It is a devastating illness that usually strikes in late teens or early twenties. There was no mention of the teenager being mentally ill and I worked in an inner city pediatric ER long enough to know that many of these teenagers are old beyond their chronological years.

I personally don't mourn the loss of anyone who is trying to kill a police officer. But I do mourn the life of the K9 that died trying to protect them.
 

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From what I heard, a group of kids were dropping the same acid, which had too much rat poison in it. Several of them were then diagnosed with schizophrenia. But it is true that it is a rumour. My brother's kid and the kid that did the shooting in my scenario were best buds both ok before bad acid, both diagnosed schizo afterwards. I do not know the names of the other kids, just that there were a group of them.

Levi was 19 or 20 when the shooting happened. Around here that is an adult with only some of the privledges. But what if he was a returning veteran from Irac and lost it and tried to shoot at the cops? Would that be tragic enough for you?

Mental illness is tragic, and sometimes, it is not always cut and dried about who should be mourned for and who should not be.

But the author of the article does have a screw loose. I don't see how honoring a dog, honors police officers any less.

Well unless it is here where there is a nice monument for the dog, and nothing for the cop that was killed in the line of duty years ago. Now I am going to have to look closer at the memorial park and see if they have a stone for him too. But they put it up AFTER the dog died. Glover died ten or more years before.

Sad that it takes a dog's death to recognize fallen officers.
 

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It is sad when any mentally ill person ends up in that situation. There is no real evidence of LSD causing schizophrenia. It is a devastating illness that usually strikes in late teens or early twenties. There was no mention of the teenager being mentally ill and I worked in an inner city pediatric ER long enough to know that many of these teenagers are old beyond their chronological years.

I personally don't mourn the loss of anyone who is trying to kill a police officer. But I do mourn the life of the K9 that died trying to protect them.

:thumbup::thumbup:
 

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Do you ever watch cops or lock up? How many of those people are totally out of their minds? Some of them are drunk or high. Some are mentally ill.

When people were a danger to themselves or others, they used to commit them to mental instatutions. Now, they do not have to take medicines or stay where they do not want to be. Some of them do not have the insurance to stay in a hospital. Years back I think Governor Cellest in Ohio, caused many of them to be kicked out of mental facilities.

When people are a danger to themselves or others, and nobody bothered to manage them properly, it is sad for society when these people do something like this. It is our fault.
 

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From what I heard, a group of kids were dropping the same acid, which had too much rat poison in it. Several of them were then diagnosed with schizophrenia. But it is true that it is a rumour. My brother's kid and the kid that did the shooting in my scenario were best buds both ok before bad acid, both diagnosed schizo afterwards. I do not know the names of the other kids, just that there were a group of them.

I'm going to thread jack for a minute here. Rat poison is actually a derivative of a drug that is given to millions of people daily. It is called Coumadin (or warfarin) and it is used in people to thin the blood and prevent blood clots from forming. In massive doses it will cause massive internal bleeding which is what happens in rat poison. It in no way can cause schizophrenia.

NOW, that being said, LSD is infamous for causing flashbacks in people even long after the drug leaves their system. Especially in repeated use or if someone gets a hold of a "bad batch". Schizophrenia as a disease that is organic based and many times has a strong familial history. And like I said it most often presents in the late teens or early 20's. I don't think it was caused by the kids taking "bad acid".

/end thread jack
 

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So two unrelated friends, taking the same drugs, both end up with the same nasty disease, as well as others in their group. Last I heard, people did not know exactly what causes Schizophrenia. Believe it or not, my friend's kid was diagnosed after a bad hockey injury with a really bad concussion.

When I was a kid in HS, 25 years or more ago, we heard about flashbacks from LSD. These kids are schizo, not just having flashbacks.
 

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You are right. Mental health care in this country is an absolute disgrace. Many, many people don't get the help they need. A majority of homeless people have serious mental health issues that aren't being treated. Unfortunately many mentally ill people get treated, get better on their meds and then decide they are better and don't need the meds any more. This is a vicious cycle that repeats over and over again in many cases.

Also, schizophrenics rarely are violent. Most of the ones I have had contact with are too scared of their hallucinations to be a real danger. Now, there are exceptions to that and occasionally one does get violent but they are usually to disorganized in their thinking as well to have a well laid out plan.
 

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Ever see "A Beautiful Mind"? I never really understood how Russell Crowe's character got Schizophrenia.
 
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