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Discussion Starter #1
I'm trying to get organized on how I might further help Chama.

I have now had her on 3 new medications for a couple of weeks and they aren't helping at all. She is on Deramaxx, Tremadol and a bronchodilator. I had to cut back on the dosage of the bd because she wasn't sleeping and was starving, incredibly thirsty and peeing on herself in her sleep. I consulted with my vet and cut the dosage in half. Side effects have subsided but I'm not seeing any difference in how she feels or breathes. Her breathing has actually gotten worse since we've been home from the cottage. She often can't sleep and when she does she wheezes.


So, back to my old tricks of trying to do things myself. I am thinking it would be good to start her on:

Cetyl-M
I think the Advanced Cetyl-M Joint Action Formula is the one I'll order. Should I order the big bottle since I'll have to give 6 a day, at least initially?

Omega 3 Fatty Acids in capsule form. She has been getting salmon oil from the squirt bottle and I'm about to run out. I remember reading that the capsules are a better source. Comments? Suggestions on a particular product?

Something for her lungs. I'm looking at these products:
http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/O...ula/999182.aspx
http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/products/Newton-Homeopathics-Cough-Asthma/161007.aspx#ReviewHeader


Any comments would be much appreciated!
 

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Ruth, I have had great success with the Cetyl-M for Mas. He is currently getting Syn Flex and doing very well on it. The Deramaxx has been as effective as metacam and I don't give him it daily anymore, just as needed.
 

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Ruth, What about krill oil capsules? (I bought them because the bottle says that krill fishing is better for the environment. But when I got home and researched it, it's not. But I had them, and I've used them, and they seem to be more effective.)

http://altmedicine.about.com/od/herbsupplementguide/a/krilloil.htm

Be sure to note the NSAID warning. But Z is on rimadyl, and I haven't had issues. But note the warning.

Fish oil has a higher percentage of EPA and DHA fatty acids, however krill oil has the advantage of having astaxanthin, an important antioxidant, vitamins A and D, and possibly other nutrients such as small amounts of phospholipids. Therefore, one option is to use a softgel or two of each, or alternate their use. Since phospholipids can be easily obtained from food, such as eggs, or lecithin ( phosphatidylcholine is found in lecithin ) one wonders if krill oil supplements are necessary when a person eats a lot of fish, takes fish oil supplements, consumes a variety of vegetables and fruits, and has a diet with adequate intake of phospholipids. http://www.raysahelian.com/krilloil.html

I alternate the krill capsules with fish oil capsules on Z. It seems to make a difference.

I don't like bottled fish oil. I used the bottled stuff all the time and have completely gotten away from it. I think it goes rancid faster than we realize (are you storing it in the refrigerator or a dark cool closet?). Or, at least, it oxidizes. And have you noticed how much oil you have to give of the bottled stuff for a dose vs. a capsule? I can't figure out why the dosing is so different.
To avoid having to give yet another pill to Z., I pinprick the capsule.

I keep the bottle of capsules in the darkest coolest cabinet I have (my refrigerator is packed with so many other dog things; I don't have room for that too.

The first onlynatural product you have listed has licorice in it. I stay away from licorice for my dogs because it's pretty potent and has some strong and potentially serious side effects. I'm sure you know them, but in case you haven't looked at them lately: http://www.personalhealthzone.com/licorice.html

With the other product, I am not familiar with most of those ingredients. I wouldn't feel comfortable commenting on it.

Are you doing anything for just general immune system boost? Vitamin C, Acidophilus, and a good multivitamin for starters? You were using milk thistle, right? Cranberry is a nice addition. Antioxidants and all that.
 

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I use the Nikken Joint Formula. I get it from the vet. I have considered looking at other brands but this one is working very well for Mas. I have often refered to the Nikken as the "miracle wonder" as the Joint Formula and the Mag Bed I have from them has really helped Mas's arthritis
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks for the information on the capsules. I have read they are more potent and keep better. I have not had a problem with the other oil going rancid thankfully!

Chama is on this product with milk thistle and other vitamins: http://www.homevet.com/osc/product_info.php?products_id=74&osCsid=5f728263a40828dcacbda165f983dcd6

Her Longevity also has some excellent additions such as bee pollen, spirulina and kelp.

And I use this supplement from time to time as well. I originally ordered it for Chama but stole it when Rafi had mange. Now I'm giving it to Chama again.
http://www.onlynaturalpet.com/product_detail.aspx?item_guid=a291c1a1-1851-406d-b584-2a7e083d2abb

I have used an herbal tincture of licorice in the past without problems. It is an excellent anti-inflammatory and many holistic vets recommend it. But remember that I also use granulated garlic without problems too!


Once I figure out what I'm going to use I will email my vet. I'm interested to hear what he thinks of the Cetyl-M.
 

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Well, if you want to go really far out, my Reiki lady does remote energy stuff! She's gotten some good results for me and the dogs-all remotely. And if it doesn't work, no big whoop-no damage.

And that light stuff-red for arthritis, blue for lungs. I was re-reading that this morning and it said you can put water in a red bottle and spray it on (that's a little crazy sounding but whatever) but it also said you could let her lay on a red towel and put a blue towel over her lungs. I would bet a very large bandanna of blue cloth would work.

Kramer and Nina get the Synovi G3 and VetriScience senior vitamin chews. Seem to work well together.
http://www.entirelypets.com/newsysoch1ta..._utmk=166679999
Ingredients: http://www.drugs.com/vet/synovig3-soft-chews.html They like the taste-so that makes it a good choice for them!

Sr. Vitamin: http://www.kvvet.com/KVVet/productr.asp?...56D1CA6F5149D5A

I just got, but haven't added liquid DMG-I am going to start Nina with additional DMG to try to keep her infections away. DMG has done a lot for a lot of dogs/cats I know from the IMOM group. Vetriscience only. There is DMG in the vitamin though.

And with the NSAID some dogs do better on one than another from what I understand-is that true? Maybe give Metacam a shot? Because if there is pain, that is going to throw everything off, and I truly believe that it's great to try to get to the root cause, but if there is still pain after treating that, you have to treat the pain.

As much as I love Tramadol and any morphine type drug (!!!) do you think it might be working against the lung med?
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Well last night she had her first solid night's sleep in weeks. The difference? No tremadol before bed, the temps were cooler and she walked a half mile further than usual (her choice).

I should say that the key to Chama's health is to be able to get her exercising more. Right now she walks 3 times a day, totaling 1 mile on a bad day and 2 miles on a good day. But she is bored. If I can get her moving better than we can walk more and that will improve everything else.

And Jean, I have a red dog towel and a blue dog towel (light blue, dark blue???) and can even gel my own lights different colors. I will take pictures of this woo-woo session and post them for you.
 

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While you're woo-wooing, if her Chi still seems blocked, what about acupuncture? It's *relatively* noninvasive if done by someone who understands seniors.

That's good news about her sleeping the night. Extra exercise helps so much! On days she isn't able to get around so much, if Chama's heart is relatively ok, what about a teeny dose of Ace to help her sleep. I mean, teeny. Grover used to have a hard time sleeping, and a 1/4 of the smallest dose of Ace helped her sleep peacefully on *those* nights. I don't like pharmaceuticals. But a good night's sleep is worth a whole handful of the best herbs.

I know, you hate the idea.
Just keep it in the back of your mind. Maybe ask your vet about having a couple around just in case. Get a pill splitter too.

I was going to suggest that since you'll hate the idea of Ace, maybe you use Kava Kava or Valerian, but you can not use either. Kava kava can lead to liver toxicity. http://www.raysahelian.com/kava.html And Valerian can interfere with absorption of other drugs. http://www.drugdigest.org/DD/PrintablePages/herbMonograph/0,11475,4047,00.html
 

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Discussion Starter #11
If only you could have seen my face when I read this!

I ordered the Cetyl-M tonight and am hoping that it really works for her. She's having so much trouble getting around now and I hate it.

I have done acupuncture several times with Chama. It didn't do enough for her considering how terrified she was at the vet.
I have been doing some acupressure/massage with her at home and she likes that a lot.

Funny that you mention something to relax her though--I just noticed today that I have at least 5 calm/relax products for dogs in my cupboard. With Basu and then Kai I started collecting the stuff.
That's a good idea to use it for Chama to help her relax at night.
 

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After I double-checked the Kava and Valerian, now I'm paranoid.
What's in your calm/relax products? Side effects? Interference with drug absorption, in particular, is something I always forget about, but for our seniors, who are taking several Rx drugs, it's always a biggie to think about.

I need to put a post-em note on my forehead to remember to ask questions about that particular side effect more often. I always ask about metabolizing thru the liver, other negative side effects, but that one? Duh. I don't.

And I bet our vets forget to consider it too.

BTW, I've once seen what you actually look like, but I KNEW the look you'd have on your face as I typed.
But I figure if I didn't mention it, I'd be remiss in my senior forum member duties.
 

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That's a good post-it note!

I like to use drugs.com to check out everything that they are taking to try to figure out if anything is going to butt heads with anything else. But I always give a list of EVERYTHING they ingest when I go to the vet for anything other than regular stuff. Because I really have no idea how these things work together.

How about Adequan? If you can do IM injections (I refuse to learn) and get an Rx, you can get it at KV Vet and a bottle lasts a while.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
She had another good night but she fell up the stairs last night (in her haste to get up and get her nighttime treats) and then down at the bottom this morning. And this morning when she fell she gave me the most pitiful look. I feel awful! I am going to start using her harness on the stairs now so this doesn't happen again. I have trained Rafi not to go down while Chama is going down but I also have to train him not to go up when she is going up. He is like a fire engine that has lost control of its rear because of his HD (and his young exhuberance) and sometimes he accidentally bumps her.


I didn't give her any calming stuff yet so I will check the ingredients and choose the most innocuous if I use them. I will probably ditch the pharmaceuticals unless I see evidence soon that they're really working.

The ability to sleep better seems to be more about the cool weather than anything else. Last night it got down into the low 50s...excellent sleeping weather. This morning all three of my pack were piled on the dog futon asking for pets. Chama insisted on nonstop pets and Cleo was trying to steal Rafi's pets.


I wish she would just wake up one morning and be moving like a puppy. I've been saying that for 2 years now. She is the most athletic dog I've ever had and this is so hard on both of us.
 

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Ouch. I hate it when they fall. Dang it.

The morning session on the futon sounds wonderful.


You do have your camera permanently loaded with film (did I just reveal how old I am?) or empty memory cards and you're taking lots of phenomenal photos of great moments like that? I always forget when my kids are all nice and loving that I need to take more pictures. When they're arguing and driving me crazy (or just pushing each other through the kitchen, in a rush to be the first outside, like somehow, "Outside" will disappear in the next two minutes), I wonder, why do I put up with this? Then I look at those photos, and I fall in love again.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
I so wished I had my camera upstairs yesterday morning. It was so cute. Chama wasn't even upset that Cleo was on the back of her bed!

I took her for an off leash walk yesterday and she chased a bunny! She was so happy. She didn't run very far or very fast but she enjoyed the chase. And she was really happy to be out and about. It's very hard (for both of us) to get her in and out of my new truck but we managed ok so I'll do this more with her.

Last night wasn't as good a night for her breathing so she ended up in the bathroom where it is cooler. I have put a bed there under the window for her.

Am still experimenting with when to give which med, etc.

And I used her harness to get her up and down the stairs so no more falling!
 

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Looks like another really old post thats been bumped up.
 
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