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Discussion Starter #1
For all you guys who have been helping me with Kias's training and trainer needs, here's what I've found:

Both have been contacted, and the dog tutor sounds better. He has worked for over 30 years with all manner of dogs and has dealt with reactivity and focus. he says that Kias is an easy case to deal with. He as also owned gsds, worked with them, and looks overall pretty good. He has a reasonable price as well.

The K-9 shaping place seems less professional, and the trainer has 10 years or so of experience. However, he has gotten good reviews and seems quite competent. He has worked with millions of dogs and seems to have a good foundation and know what to do.
I have also contacted Ocean State Shutzhund Club, and they are asking me to call them so they can explain more what they are about. I know they are good, but I'm not sure Kias is ready to train with all those really experienced dogs before he is with a basic trainer. So may call then wait till he is at least a year before I head over there.

Alright, so based on the websites, the descriptions and stuff, what do you all think I should pursue for training?
Couple things to keep in mind:
Mom and Dad do not want me to do Shutzhund. It'll take a ton of convincing to get them to let me do even tracking or agility.
I want Kias trained to high-level obedience. Show heel. Come immediately no matter what. Engagement. Etc. I want him to be more than the normal dog on the street.

Once I get my answer, I'll contact them and get their rate, then proof the choice with Mom and Dad. Then I get something scheduled if there are not troubles.


Please tell me what you think...Thanks guys!
 

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Discussion Starter #2
I've also contacted this trainer. She's worked for years with Belgian Malinois and GSD and deals with rearctivity all the time.
What do you guys think? What's your preference of the choices, and why?
 

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I looked at all 3 of them, read their blog posts, looked at their training philosophies etc., and I think any one of the 3 would be good. I saw no red flags for any of them.

Is there something specific you're looking to work on, or is it just general obedience help?
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I looked at all 3 of them, read their blog posts, looked at their training philosophies etc., and I think any one of the 3 would be good. I saw no red flags for any of them.

Is there something specific you're looking to work on, or is it just general obedience help?
Reactivity. Focus. General obedience I'm good with. It's the reactivity that I can't handle.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I looked at all 3 of them, read their blog posts, looked at their training philosophies etc., and I think any one of the 3 would be good. I saw no red flags for any of them.

Is there something specific you're looking to work on, or is it just general obedience help?
Thanks so much for your help. I thought more people would answer but maybe i was asking too much. Anyway. Thanks. I think I'm going with the club or the Canine Solutions.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Sire
Dam's sister. Dam wasn't on the site or anywhere else.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
It isn't a glamorous pedigree, I know. The breeders are less of a hard-core breeder and more of a for-fun breeder.
 

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At a quick glance, the pedigree looks to be all DDR. Keep in mind that the DDR dogs were not bred for sport, so they typically don't have high prey drive. Some of the more current dogs from DDR lines have more prey drive because they are not bred to the original DDR standards. How is your dog's prey and food drive? My point is that it might be a challenge to get a flashy heel. The reactivity could be defensive aggression which DDR lines are known for. Your dog could simply have the genetics for certain types of aggression.
 

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It isn't a glamorous pedigree, I know. The breeders are less of a hard-core breeder and more of a for-fun breeder.

No. They really aren't. Carmspack has an excellent reputation and these dogs in the pedigree are not "for-fun". She used to be very active on the board as was the owner of this kennel. Highly suggest you email either of them. I agree with Chip that the "reactivity" could be aggression with this pedigree. If you want to know more about the lines and really understand them, contact Carmspack in Canada.
556997


As far as the trainers, contacting the club as you did and I would look more at the Canine Behaviors.
 

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I updated your subject line. Depending on how a member browses the forum, it helps to be specific in order to attract the right individuals to your thread... hope that helps.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
At a quick glance, the pedigree looks to be all DDR. Keep in mind that the DDR dogs were not bred for sport, so they typically don't have high prey drive. Some of the more current dogs from DDR lines have more prey drive because they are not bred to the original DDR standards. How is your dog's prey and food drive? My point is that it might be a challenge to get a flashy heel. The reactivity could be defensive aggression which DDR lines are known for. Your dog could simply have the genetics for certain types of aggression.
Wow. All DDR? I've got a special dog! (just kidding. Anybody's dog is special) His food drive isn't great. Prey drive is better. He'll do anything for something he wants in the ball and toy category. (this morning he obeyed the my "use the bathroom" commands just to get his orange ball.) he also goes after small children and tries to herd them around (punished when it happens) and after cars and bikers and runners, etc. That's my evidence, but I'm not sure.

The reactivity is I think fear aggression. Hair raised, tail down, but he's fine once he meets the dog or owner. I'm not sure, but I think it is fear aggression. I do know there is a fine line though, so it could be different. So I shouldn't pursue flashy heel? Okay.

No. They really aren't. Carmspack has an excellent reputation and these dogs in the pedigree are not "for-fun". She used to be very active on the board as was the owner of this kennel. Highly suggest you email either of them. I agree with Chip that the "reactivity" could be aggression with this pedigree. If you want to know more about the lines and really understand them, contact Carmspack in Canada.


As far as the trainers, contacting the club as you did and I would look more at the Canine Behaviors.
Okay. Yah sorry, I actually meant the actual owners of the dam when I said "for fun". The dam's owners were actually losing money by breeding their dog. That's what I meant by for fun. I should have been more specific. Sorry about that.
I think I'll contact Carmspack in Canada. I would like to know more about the lines. Thanks for the help. I't's interesting to know Kias actually might be full DDR!
Alright, I'm scheduled to call Konnie at Canine Behaviors today and hopefully the club tomorrow. (We're on a tight schedule today)
Thanks for the help.

I updated your subject line. Depending on how a member browses the forum, it helps to be specific in order to attract the right individuals to your thread... hope that helps.
Thank you. It definitely does make more sense. Thanks!
 

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Discussion Starter #14
So basically Kias is not the kind of dog that will excel in the high levels of obedience. Oh well. I was hoping to maybe compete with him some day, but I suppose I'll have to pursue tracking if I want to do that.
 

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So basically Kias is not the kind of dog that will excel in the high levels of obedience. Oh well. I was hoping to maybe compete with him some day, but I suppose I'll have to pursue tracking if I want to do that.
Nobody knows that for sure. That's only a guess based on the pedigree. There is no reason you can not train him and compete with him. Also no reason why you can not train in obedience and in tracking at the same time. If you were to join the club, USCA does have titles for obedience and tracking without protection.
 

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I am not all saying you shouldn't try to obtain a flashy heel, competition obedience, or the protection sports. It just helps knowing what traits your dog has so you know what you are working with and what training approaches to try. I would not consider the two trainers you posted at the top of this page. I would try to find someone with skills in competition obedience or protection sports. You can still get reliable, accurate obedience. Dogs with higher prey drive are more suited for learning flashy obedience, but it takes knowledge and figuring out what works with your dog and what doesn't. Have you ever seen anyone use a ball on a string or an obedience tug? If you use food, clicker training can be very helpful, but it is more complicated that some think if you do it correctly.
 

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Kias seems young to need help from a problem dog trainer as those two mentioned appear. They could be very knowledgeable but i have also found that I receive much better advice from people who work GSDs than the generic dog trainers I’ve spoken to and worked with. If you get Kias involved in high level OB training, chances are you will have better tools to snap him out of his reactivity and you will have better communication with him.

So basically, I agree with Chip on this one.

Club would probably be ideal but it takes a lot of time and if your parents are uncomfortable with club then it might be right out. In the clubs I have visited, many members would be very excited to have a young, highly motivated person interested in Schutzhund and you could pick up a very nice set of mentors just as you have here. I have received great advice in club from a good set of people experienced with GSDs that not only helps me with Schutzhund training but gives me a better understanding of my GSD’s actions and motivations.

But if you can’t do club, I would suggest a competition obedience course. You may need to take a puppy course first if you haven’t already. I am in an AKC competition OB class now with Vandal and loving it. Making him work around other dogs also gives him something to focus on other than a dog’s presence and can be great socialization.
 

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As Jax08 said, you can compete in IGP and not do the protection phase if that is your parent's concern and when you get older, you will have a knowledge base. But you have to find a good club. I see so many videos of mainstream training programs in various protection sports that really are not good training IMO.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Okay, thanks guys. I'm calling Canine Behavior Solutions tonight. She is very knowledgeable and has worked with gsds a lot. So she and the club are what I am going for so far. I don't think my parents will have a problem with the club, but it may end up being only able to get there once every two weeks or so.

And if possible, I aim to do as much as I can in the OB category, even if it isn't competing level. And tracking will probably not start for a few months or so, but that I aim to maybe get a foundation in as well.
I think I will also see if there are any AKC clubs around as well, as they will also help and may be a little closer.
 

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Great job selecting a trainer and/or club. I think you will find it helps a lot. Ole has been so reactive that I have found the last couple of weeks working with him a bit unpleasant and a bit discouraging. The trainer is helping me learn to read my dog.

Today, he handled himself like a champ. As we went exploring, we stayed just a the edge of his comfort zone; happy and alert but not anxious. It was an awesome couple of hours.

I think, for us newbies, it is really a matter of putting in the time with the pup to build the relationship. Everything else builds on that relationship.
 
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