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Last Friday I was taking the dogs out for a walk. I normally wait in front of the house for my dogs to calm down before we start the walk. Something about the start of a walk that gets them worked up. My loving neighbor approached my dogs speaking baby talk when she could clearly see how excited they already were. That wouldn't have been a problem in itself as I can handle them both even when they are super excited, that was until something else went wrong.

My husky/lab dog collar came loose from her neck when she was pulling on it. This dog has anxiety and we've been making great gains with her on this but she isn't ready to be off leash. Whenever she is off the leash the anxiety takes over and off she goes completely ignoring everything. She ran up to a woman who happened to be disabled and knocked her with her head. Didn't scratch or bite her, just hit her face in a jump because I think she leaned over as the dog was jumping. I felt terrible about the whole situation and after I managed to get my dog back under control I was asking to see what I could do for them, if anything. Her and her family didn't want anything from me beyond my name and address which I gave it to them.

I have nothing against people who need a little help to get through life so please nobody take offensive to this. This family was looking for a golden ticket and today they thought they found it. They wanted to sue me and was hoping to get a large payoff. They called the police and animal control who came by and took their statement and let them know what their options were. It wasn't turning out to be the golden ticket they were hoping for so the woman no longer felt like she needed medical assistant and instead yelled at the animal control officer and wanted my dog put down.

Finally it was my turn to talk with animal control. The officer informed me that I just happened to have a case of bad luck. She took my info. Informed that I was going to be cited for failure to control my dog and since she did knock into someone, even though she didn't bite anyone, she would be considered a dangerous dog. I felt like there wasn't a lot I could have done as if I knew the collar was going to fail me I would have brought a different one. I've been making strides to control her off leash but it is a process and when the anxiety gets added in, the process is much longer. We are in training and we do work on this.

I do not wish for this dog to be classified as dangerous so I requested a hearing against animal control. Are court date will be in 3 or 4 weeks. I don't know if any of you have any experience with this? This all could have easily been avoided if the collar would have held up. The only types of collars that go around the neck I know of are the normal buckle collar and the training collar we use to use but since she had improved so much I switched her to the buckle collar as I didn't need added force for correction. Even though I wish to do mostly positive training I'm now back to using the training collar since I feel it will have a better chance of holding up.
 

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Sorry I don't have any legal advice but what about a martingale collar? It is like a normal nylon type collar but with a loop so the dog cannot slip out of it. It will tighten, but not choke like a choke collar.
 

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I us a martingale collar. I don't like sliding it on over the head though. I got one with a buckle.

[ame]http://www.amazon.com/Canine-Equipment-Technika-Release-Martingale/dp/B00A20SIF2/ref=sr_1_10?ie=UTF8&qid=1371853369&sr=8-10&keywords=martingale+quick+release+dog+collar+large[/ame]
 

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Get a lawyer. That's my advice. And double the collars so if one breaks there is a back up. Some people put a choke collar on with a buckle collar.
 

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Get the most powerful shock collar you can find and set it on the highest setting!


And then use it on your neighbor!

Just kidding. Since the neighbor was talking in baby voices to the dog wouldn't she be at least partially responsible? Calling out to a dog and having it come to them it would seem so anyways.
 

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Get good recomendation letter from your vet if you can. Go through a legal test: Temperament Testing - Dog Safety - The American Dog Magazine
it should help.
Your problem is not the collar, but the fact that you are dependent on the leash. Train your dogs unleashed in some secure area, some classes while she is young, because this accident may reoccur.
You know, not all of us have the advantage of being perfect, or of owning perfect dogs.

Considering what a dog is exposed to in an ATTS temperament test, an anxious dog is most likely not going to be able to pass it.

As for being "dependent on the leash", well, they come in rather handy when dealing with fearful or reactive dogs. And from what the OP said, they HAVE been working with this dog, so I can't see why you are criticizing them for lack of training.
 

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OP, I don't have any advice on the legal front.

I will say, however, that I hope a judge will use common sense and rule in your favor without the whole thing being dragged out in court battle. The neighbor approached your dogs, was making inviting utterances to the dogs... Your dog did not bite, growl or display any aggressive behaviors. Your dog was amped up and jumped up. Sorry, that does not make a dog aggressive.

Keep us posted! Given the circumstances, and the actual behaviors of your dog, I understand why you are contesting the dangerous dog classification and I truly hope you prevail!!!
 

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Like someone said get a lawyer. You also need one because this person can file a lawsuit against you down the road. doesn't have to be now. I think for a traffic accident it's something like two years. Like in a traffic accident things can "develop". Protect your dog and yourself......
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Sorry I don't have any legal advice but what about a martingale collar? It is like a normal nylon type collar but with a loop so the dog cannot slip out of it. It will tighten, but not choke like a choke collar.
I've thought about using one of those. Never used one before and stores around me don't sell one. Any recommendations?

I us a martingale collar. I don't like sliding it on over the head though. I got one with a buckle.

Amazon.com: Canine Equipment Technika 1-Inch Quick Release Martingale Dog Collar, X-Large, Black: Pet Supplies
Would that make it less safe by adding the buckle since I am going for added security?

Get a lawyer. That's my advice. And double the collars so if one breaks there is a back up. Some people put a choke collar on with a buckle collar.
I didn't get a lawyer but I did get some legal advice. He told me not to ever blame the dog for anything in court. Fully blame the collar and only the collar. I never even considered going with a double collar. Currently I'm using a collar/training collar combo.

Get good recomendation letter from your vet if you can. Go through a legal test: Temperament Testing - Dog Safety - The American Dog Magazine
it should help.
Your problem is not the collar, but the fact that you are dependent on the leash. Train your dogs unleashed in some secure area, some classes while she is young, because this accident may reoccur.
I know I'm dependent upon my leash with her. She has came much much further along than she was when I adopted her from the last owner. The last owner tried to return her to the shelter for a chance to find a new home and the shelter said they were going to put her down since her anxiety was too large of a problem for most people to handle. I'm not really sure how she'll do on the temperament test but I did consider getting her tested as well as the vet note. We already have our CGC.

Since the neighbor was talking in baby voices to the dog wouldn't she be at least partially responsible? Calling out to a dog and having it come to them it would seem so anyways.
You'd think so but it really isn't her fault. I don't think it should have been my fault either as far as criminal charges and having a dangerous dog. I would have agreed to pay for any medical charges or damages she may have done which is why I was asking them if there was anything I could do to help.

You know, not all of us have the advantage of being perfect, or of owning perfect dogs.

Considering what a dog is exposed to in an ATTS temperament test, an anxious dog is most likely not going to be able to pass it.

As for being "dependent on the leash", well, they come in rather handy when dealing with fearful or reactive dogs. And from what the OP said, they HAVE been working with this dog, so I can't see why you are criticizing them for lack of training.
Some of us are better trainers and can deal with even the most stubborn dogs. I had been use to dealing with aggression but anxious required a completely different approach. Everyone is telling me all I can do is keep putting more time into it. I have one dog who if she gets off leash I can get her back but both haven't made it to that point yet. Even though my shepherd can be trusted off leash I never take her off leash unless it is for agility or other sort of exercise that is to be done off leash. Otherwise we train with the long line if we can't use a contained area.
 

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I've had court experience, but with a business. In my area of CA, a business is usually the bad person and the court will rule against you even if proof you are following the laws of the land, and a sworn officer as a witness.

You never can tell how a case will go. I suggest you bring in the old collar and your proof of a new effective collar, statements of a trainer, and what someone else recommended - statements from a vet. I would not want my dog to be considered dangerous and it could not hurt trying to change that.

It's a good thing you appear to not have a lot of assets. Then you'd probably be sued. My husband owns a very small business - but in the minds of others, any business has money and we had a judge OK a class action law suit against us many years ago with only one plaintiff. It was 2 years of opposite of heaven. I sincerely hope you find yourself surrounded by people in the justice system who are objective, fair and without an agenda. Good Luck!
 

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This is just before a animal control board, correct? Not an actual court case with judge, bailiff, and jury?

Here's the thing, animal control laws are often vague and open to interpretation. For example, in this city we have an allowance for aggression if the dog is provoked. Well, kissy-talking to a dog could be construed as teasing. I'm not saying it is the neighbor's fault, but she is being a real pain about this whole thing and you don't need to be "nice" to her. The collar broke- maybe the neighbor should sue the collar company, and whoever has patents for the buckles or design of the collar while they're at it.

At the hearing be calm, be reasonable. Come across as a responsible dog owner who was relying on equipment that broke due to no fault of you or the dog. The dog was excited. Not aggressive. It won't happen again and you keep your dog leashed and under control at all times and haven't had any other complaints. A reasonable panel should rule in your favor.

I also think you can Google dog case law and find some useful information. I mean, this is such a minor incident compared to a bite or dog attack. Is it too late to make nice to your neighbor and have them dismiss the case or is that not possible? That would be the best strategy all around.

It sounds like you have real nice neighbors (sarcasm). Too bad it had to escalate to this point.
 

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I think that you should really be careful what you say on a public internet board if you are facing some court stuff.

Did I get this right that you were trying to control two dogs, one of which was not well trained? While, I have done this, to start training a pup, just the other day, and while I was getting her under control and grabbing her leash, I accidently let the leash latch open. Uhg! I could have lost her yesterday to a car. But she came right back. So it happens.

But the old lady I was walking with her is well trained on or off leash, and, I was able to get control back immediately. My suggestion would be to walk the dogs separately so you have better control and can focus on managing just the one at a time.

Sorry you are going through this. It is stupid. But they feel they need to protect their family member who is disabled. I can see how someone might look for a personal foul penalty, and not be satisfied with just a no-gain situation.
 

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This isn't from my experience, but from talking with Woolf's trainer/behaviorist. She has done a number of these cases where she evaluates the dog, appears in court or animal control whichever the case and gives her testimony.

That may be something to consider for your dog. Have an evaluation done with a credentialed behaviorist, and either appear with you or have a notarized letter stating what they found.

Agree as well with the martingale. Though I am leery of buckles since having bad luck with any type of buckle breaking with Woolf. I use the slip over with him.
 

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Sorry you are going through this. It is stupid. But they feel they need to protect their family member who is disabled. I can see how someone might look for a personal foul penalty, and not be satisfied with just a no-gain situation.
Re: the part I bolded: I do not see how someone might look for that. I, personally, think that mindset is ridiculous and a real problem!

If people really wanted to go after the broader structural problems in our society, healthcare system and employment practices that create the REAL BARRIERS for disabled people - well, then, I would be for fighting that battle.
 

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Re: the part I bolded: I do not see how someone might look for that. I, personally, think that mindset is ridiculous and a real problem!

If people really wanted to go after the broader structural problems in our society, healthcare system and employment practices that create the REAL BARRIERS for disabled people - well, then, I would be for fighting that battle.
Dogs charging elderly or disabled people and knocking them down isn't a problem?

I'm no spring chilcken, and if I get knocked down, I won't heal so fast. Disabled people have enough trouble trying to stay healthy and moving enough to give them enough exercise to make life a little easier. A set back that a serious fall can cause to an elderly or disabled person can be a lot more serious than for your average healthy adult or kid.

I had no trouble with my knees when this year began, and I wrenched one in the end of January. Now both are giving me lots of trouble because of how I had to use the other. And because the knees are doing badly, the rest of me is doing a lot worse due to the general lack of exercise and rest.

So I am out there trying to exercise on bad knees to try to improve everything without ruining my knees. It sucks. And that is what happens when old, or disabled persons are knocked down by a big, out of control dog.

I understand where they are coming from.
 

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So I am out there trying to exercise on bad knees to try to improve everything without ruining my knees. It sucks. And that is what happens when old, or disabled persons are knocked down by a big, out of control dog.

I understand where they are coming from.
I don't. If the person is disables why are they talking baby talk to a dog. That just focuses that dogs attention on that person. They should have just ignored the dogs.

Now if she was ignoring the dogs, minding her own business and the collar broke and then the dog ran and knocked her down...well, then I could see where she is coming from.

I really bother me when people make bad choices and then try to blame others for their actions.
 

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It really bother me when people make bad choices and then try to blame others for their actions.
Ditto.

They should have asked for the OP's permission to pet or call to the dog. People need to grow up and accept responsibility for their own actions.


Good luck to you OP. I do know there is legal help for people in your situ so I would google that here quick.
 

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Last Friday I was taking the dogs out for a walk. I normally wait in front of the house for my dogs to calm down before we start the walk. Something about the start of a walk that gets them worked up. My loving neighbor approached my dogs speaking baby talk when she could clearly see how excited they already were. That wouldn't have been a problem in itself as I can handle them both even when they are super excited, that was until something else went wrong.

My husky/lab dog collar came loose from her neck when she was pulling on it. This dog has anxiety and we've been making great gains with her on this but she isn't ready to be off leash. Whenever she is off the leash the anxiety takes over and off she goes completely ignoring everything. She ran up to a woman who happened to be disabled and knocked her with her head. Didn't scratch or bite her, just hit her face in a jump because I think she leaned over as the dog was jumping. I felt terrible about the whole situation and after I managed to get my dog back under control I was asking to see what I could do for them, if anything. Her and her family didn't want anything from me beyond my name and address which I gave it to them.

I have nothing against people who need a little help to get through life so please nobody take offensive to this. This family was looking for a golden ticket and today they thought they found it. They wanted to sue me and was hoping to get a large payoff. They called the police and animal control who came by and took their statement and let them know what their options were. It wasn't turning out to be the golden ticket they were hoping for so the woman no longer felt like she needed medical assistant and instead yelled at the animal control officer and wanted my dog put down.

Finally it was my turn to talk with animal control. The officer informed me that I just happened to have a case of bad luck. She took my info. Informed that I was going to be cited for failure to control my dog and since she did knock into someone, even though she didn't bite anyone, she would be considered a dangerous dog. I felt like there wasn't a lot I could have done as if I knew the collar was going to fail me I would have brought a different one. I've been making strides to control her off leash but it is a process and when the anxiety gets added in, the process is much longer. We are in training and we do work on this.

I do not wish for this dog to be classified as dangerous so I requested a hearing against animal control. Are court date will be in 3 or 4 weeks. I don't know if any of you have any experience with this? This all could have easily been avoided if the collar would have held up. The only types of collars that go around the neck I know of are the normal buckle collar and the training collar we use to use but since she had improved so much I switched her to the buckle collar as I didn't need added force for correction. Even though I wish to do mostly positive training I'm now back to using the training collar since I feel it will have a better chance of holding up.
It sounds like two different folks people. The OP will correct me, but why would a loving neighbor who talks baby talk to the dog and gets them more excited, need to know the name an address?
 

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Ditto.

They should have asked for the OP's permission to pet or call to the dog. People need to grow up and accept responsibility for their own actions.


Good luck to you OP. I do know there is legal help for people in your situ so I would google that here quick.
Even if the disabled woman was the same woman that talked baby talk to the dog, it does not mean she should expect the dog to rush into her and knock her down.

I have had people bark at my dogs. Should I just leave go of the leash and if the dog attacks them, well they shouldn't have barked at my dog.

We have to have our dogs under control. No, I do not think these people should be able to pay off their home because the dog knocked her down, but I do understand why a disabled person might want to do more than get an apology when a dog rushes into her and knocks her down. What if it was an old lady and it broke her hip, and she went into the hospital and never made it out? Would she have gotten what she deserved?

I think the OP should stop trying to worry so much about how rotten the neighbor is, and should spend some serious thought on how to better manage the dog. Yes accidents do happen. And this dog has an anxiety issue, which makes her flake out. The OP knows this. That means she has to be more protective of this dog, more careful with the management. That anxiety makes the dog more dangerous, especially to herself.

I do think that she should try like heck not to get the lable on the dog. But I can understand the other point of view.
 
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