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Discussion Starter #61
Indoor space has never been a huge issue for me... I got my first GSD while living in a 350sq ft efficiency apt. My current house is 700sq ft and until recently I had 2 GSD here. It’s a nice size for us.

love this! gives me more hope!
 

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For the lobby, there's space by the elevators to back up, so we do that, though even with best laid plans, sometimes there are encounters. The vestibules are trickier so we try to stand to one side, or if we go the door and see someone's coming out we back away and let them go out (or in).

It's totally doable.
 
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super helpful, appreciate you being so transparent here as some of these incidents don't sound that fun.. if you don't mind me asking, are you in a smaller unit in the city as well? 600-750 sq ft kind of ordeal?
I had a Great Dane (the dog that ate the concrete mix) in two relatively small,400sq ft, apartments. Totally doable. Dog crates make awesome end tables. Seriously though inside space was never an issue in any place with any dog. In my 700 sq ft little house I varied between 6 and 9 dogs at a time.
 

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super helpful, appreciate you being so transparent here as some of these incidents don't sound that fun.. if you don't mind me asking, are you in a smaller unit in the city as well? 600-750 sq ft kind of ordeal?
Yup, a little under 700. It’s perfectly fine with one dog. He usually hangout on my balcony at home and his kennel is out of the way. Fitting kennels in took a little rearranging, but it’s fine. The space is only an issue when I have more than 3 or 4 people over, but that’s nothing to do with the dogs.
 

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@BKGSD do you know or have you spoken to anyone that’s raised a GSD in the city (The City)... it’s not the easiest environment and simple things like going for a walk or to the park can be a lot more challenging than one would expect. The dog culture here can be very frustrating....and you’re generally one frenchie or doodle away from a behavioral problem. See if you can connect with one of the trainers at Koru... just a neutral recommendation, as I know many of their trainers and clientele have GSD. Last I knew they held group classes at Lands End.

I am a trainer for Koru K9. I can tell you, the city is a VERY hard place to raise a GSD. Or any dog for that matter lol.

I have not read all the replies, so I may be a little late. Before I'd even consider color, temperament and nerve would be my main priority in that environment. Mental stimulation is key! Also searching the city for quiet spots to be able to work your dog alone and away from the chaos. Living in an apartment, keep in mind, puppies make noise. Especially during crate training and things like that. I have a 7 month old doberman here now because the owner was about to be evicted due to the puppy making noise. So just other things to keep in mind.
 

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Discussion Starter #67
I am a trainer for Koru K9. I can tell you, the city is a VERY hard place to raise a GSD. Or any dog for that matter lol.

I have not read all the replies, so I may be a little late. Before I'd even consider color, temperament and nerve would be my main priority in that environment. Mental stimulation is key! Also searching the city for quiet spots to be able to work your dog alone and away from the chaos. Living in an apartment, keep in mind, puppies make noise. Especially during crate training and things like that. I have a 7 month old doberman here now because the owner was about to be evicted due to the puppy making noise. So just other things to keep in mind.
Thanks for your help here!

I tried calling and emailing to speak to someone there to chat about this exactly! I currently live in Nob Hill and am convinced that raising a puppy would be exponentially more difficult here. Planning on moving to Mission Bay or Hayes Valley before the pup arrives (moving by end of July 2020). More dog friendly, quieter, open space, grassy areas, etc. Few questions:

1. What do you think of Mission Bay/Hayes? Either preferred? (when raising a puppy, I realize i'll sacrifice neighborhood character/local bars/restaurants, etc. which I'm fine with..)
2. Any advice on evaluating temperament/nerve? General consensus from my research and breeder discussion seems to be fully communicate what I'm looking for/the environment I plan on raising a dog in to the breeder and let them find one that's suitable for me. Anything outside of this that'll help me vet temperament? I really wish I had more to go off of here..
3. I plan on introducing myself to my new neighbors and preparing a goodie-bag, letting them know my plans to raise the puppy. I'll be open about communicating and working with it and realize that the first month or two will be rough and there will be noise but I'll do the best I can to manage it. Advice here also appreciated
 

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From a dog savvy friend, sf native...

“Mission Bay is near the ball park and Children’s hospital. It’s walkable, near the water front and has some small, dog friendly green space. Hayes Valley has nice parts near dog friendly parks, and Golden Gate Park. Some parts have a larger unhoused population with lots of opportunity to get into trash and poop. Personally I would pick Hayes (but I’m partial cause that’s where I live). I feel like there are probably more dogs in Hayes then Mission Bay, the person will likely need to be strategic in their outings.”
 

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You can get a working line GSD they are mostly sable colored and very healthy compared to the show line. The only thing is you need to tire them out as their energy level is endless from pup till 5-7 years. After that they are a lot calmer. I know a few who have a sable working line at home and they are lovely,fiercely loyal and protective.
 

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Discussion Starter #70
From a dog savvy friend, sf native...

“Mission Bay is near the ball park and Children’s hospital. It’s walkable, near the water front and has some small, dog friendly green space. Hayes Valley has nice parts near dog friendly parks, and Golden Gate Park. Some parts have a larger unhoused population with lots of opportunity to get into trash and poop. Personally I would pick Hayes (but I’m partial cause that’s where I live). I feel like there are probably more dogs in Hayes then Mission Bay, the person will likely need to be strategic in their outings.”
I'll check out Hayes this weekend. I was in Mission Bay this weekend scoping out the neighborhood.. very calm, ton of dogs and dog parks, open spaces, etc. Seems very suburban and lacked the real city character. Didn't notice the poop on the ground but I'll head back next weekend to double check lol
 

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You can get a working line GSD they are mostly sable colored and very healthy compared to the show line. The only thing is you need to tire them out as their energy level is endless from pup till 5-7 years. After that they are a lot calmer. I know a few who have a sable working line at home and they are lovely,fiercely loyal and protective.
Working lines are no less, and no more, healthy than show lines. That is just simply not factual. This is the same breed with the same health issues plaguing both lines. A good breeder is doing the same testing regardless of lines and following the same breeding ethics.
 

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Discussion Starter #72
Does anyone have experience with Kreative Kennels?

Had a very in-depth conversation with the owner today, she seems well versed and intelligent, very up to date. They do breed a high volume of litters though, 12 annually. Is that a concern?
 

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Does anyone have experience with Kreative Kennels?

Had a very in-depth conversation with the owner today, she seems well versed and intelligent, very up to date. They do breed a high volume of litters though, 12 annually. Is that a concern?
No experience but they are a pricey, commercial breeding operation. You can get as good or better a pup from a breeder who actually knows their dogs.
 

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I'll check out Hayes this weekend. I was in Mission Bay this weekend scoping out the neighborhood.. very calm, ton of dogs and dog parks, open spaces, etc. Seems very suburban and lacked the real city character. Didn't notice the poop on the ground but I'll head back next weekend to double check lol
I’m pretty sure she was referring to human feces, in some areas of hayes valley. eek!
Does anyone have experience with Kreative Kennels?

Had a very in-depth conversation with the owner today, she seems well versed and intelligent, very up to date. They do breed a high volume of litters though, 12 annually. Is that a concern?
A concern? In what way?
Personally, too high volume for me. I prefer a breeder that knows their individual dogs pretty intimately - what they’re like not only to work, but live with. I’m also relying on them to know the litter well enough to match me with the appropriate pup. Lastly... I like when breeders stay in contact with their puppy buyers... tracking their accomplishments as well as any health issues, strengths/weaknesses in the lines or between a particular breeding pair.

Kreative may very well have a system in place to track all this info... i don’t know, but those are the things that would be on my mind.
 

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I agree very much with using a breeder that has less volume and that lives with their dogs and knows them well. I have benefited from a lower volume breeder. I would add that there is also a benefit to using a breeder that has multiple generations of their line rather than importing regularly. My GSD was picked for me within those parameters and he’s absolutely awesome for our life.
It’s the breeder knowing the breeding stock and the progeny just as @Fodder said. But in my case it’s also the support. Guidance and genetic knowledge from a breeder that knows their own lines are extremely helpful.
Unfortunately, less volume also means that you might have to wait longer for a breeding that can produce the right puppy for you.
 

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Discussion Starter #76
I’m pretty sure she was referring to human feces, in some areas of hayes valley. eek!

A concern? In what way?
Personally, too high volume for me. I prefer a breeder that knows their individual dogs pretty intimately - what they’re like not only to work, but live with. I’m also relying on them to know the litter well enough to match me with the appropriate pup. Lastly... I like when breeders stay in contact with their puppy buyers... tracking their accomplishments as well as any health issues, strengths/weaknesses in the lines or between a particular breeding pair.

Kreative may very well have a system in place to track all this info... i don’t know, but those are the things that would be on my mind.

Unfortunately, human feces is all over the ground in ALL parts of San Francisco. The income disparity within a short-half mile, between the financial district and the tenderloin is ridiculous, SF leadership should really be ashamed at how the city has changed.. but thats a different topic I'd rather not divert our productive conversation from.

I agree with the high-volume piece, it's a bit concerning.. how can they provide genuine love and care if they have so many dogs all over the facilities? When I called her, she did know the dog names, pedigree, and traits/coloring + birth schedules immediately though. She seems to know whats going on, but I do question whether or not each puppy gets the TLC it needs?
 

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Discussion Starter #77
Another huge question I have is:

I've scoured online forums, have had multiple discussions with breeders at length via phone, chatted with owners of sable/working line GSDs and the general consensus is that they won't be ideal for my situation as they're much higher energy, don't always have off-switches, and can be loud/vocal. After hearing that I live in an apartment and am looking for a dog with an off-switch that's not too vocal, everyone seems to try and persuade me to look into West German Showlines/and NOT sables.

Is this the case? Should I not consider Sables as they'll have an intensity/high-drive that won't allow for calmer, suitable companionship in the city?

To be clear, I believe training is a lifelong endeavor and will stimulate mentally and physically for multiple hours a day. Can afford to take him out and play twice a day on weekdays and for hours at a time on weekends when things free up. I didn't have a problem with my last GSD and was able to train him vocally, however it seems like some sables are loud and it can't be avoided due to underlying personality?

Would love everyones thoughts here!
 

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Discussion Starter #78
I agree very much with using a breeder that has less volume and that lives with their dogs and knows them well. I have benefited from a lower volume breeder. I would add that there is also a benefit to using a breeder that has multiple generations of their line rather than importing regularly. My GSD was picked for me within those parameters and he’s absolutely awesome for our life.
It’s the breeder knowing the breeding stock and the progeny just as @Fodder said. But in my case it’s also the support. Guidance and genetic knowledge from a breeder that knows their own lines are extremely helpful.
Unfortunately, less volume also means that you might have to wait longer for a breeding that can produce the right puppy for you.

This is great stuff, I appreciate it.

I've narrowed my search down to a handful of breeders, 3/4 are smaller and 1/4 is a larger volume breeder. Of course, I'd love a lower volume breeder that can give me a hand picked dog.. but due to timelines some I've contacted have 15+ on the waitlist and expect newer applicants to get puppies mid-2021.

Definitely incorporating timeline into the factor here as well!
 

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Discussion Starter #79
Yup, a little under 700. It’s perfectly fine with one dog. He usually hangout on my balcony at home and his kennel is out of the way. Fitting kennels in took a little rearranging, but it’s fine. The space is only an issue when I have more than 3 or 4 people over, but that’s nothing to do with the dogs.

Any tips or tricks for training them out of barking/whining as puppies to ensure I don't get evicted due to noise complaints?! lol
 

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Discussion Starter #80
Indoor space has never been a huge issue for me... I got my first GSD while living in a 350sq ft efficiency apt. My current house is 700sq ft and until recently I had 2 GSD here. It’s a nice size for us.

Any advice on training puppies out of whining/barking/crying to ensure there aren't endless noise complaints? Also, do your dogs bark when people pass in the apartment hallways when you aren't home? Suggestions on avoiding?

Was thinking of a camera system and training it by recreating the situation and slowly working it.
 
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