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Discussion Starter #1
Aside from the obvious...(containing your dogs!!)...thoughts on the rest of this letter??


Okay just coincidence two different Mary Anns. I am looking at all the options for my GS. Last Sunday I got a call from a neighbor. She said my GS was killing and eating her baby lama. I have two other dogs a shihtzu , and Jack Russel. When I got up there the lady said she yelled at the shepherd and he ran toward home. The Russel was still hanging around and the shihtzu was by the dead baby llama his little face covered with blood. They shot the baby llama. We looked at the rest of the herd, one was missing. we looked further and found a full grown female dead. There were big tufts of fur all over. This full grown llama had been dead for a while. Body temp was cold and she was board stiff, So now I am accused of having a shepherd that is a stock killer. Evidence seems to back the accusation up. Even so I am not convinced this shepherd killed the full grown llama by himself not even with the help of the two little guys. I have a few choices. 1)Shoot or have him put down. 2)keep the dog chained or penned. 3) find him a new home or 4) Mary Ann (didn't get last name) in Mountain Home suggested that I ask the llama owner if she would allow me to work with the dog around her stock with a training shock collar. She said that I would stand a very good chance of breaking the chase llama trait with proper use of the shock collar technique. She said she has had very good luck training dogs with bad behavior problems. She said she has loaned the collar to friends with instructions and they had good luck too. She is the only person I have talked to that seemed to take a positive attitude toward this situation. In the past Doogie has been let run freely over the area. We live in the country with river frontage and he has lived in dog heaven. Since the incident I have kept Doogie in the house or an a cable when I am not right with him. I take him for a walk and we play fetch the ball with a "chuckit" toy. Throws a tennis ball 200' or so. It gives him a good exercise work out for 30 to 60 minutes. Some days I do that twice a day. He is not a hyper dog but has been used to running free and getting plenty exercise on his own. So I feel he needs at least what I do with him to keep his spirits up. Most people in this part of the country do not question what to do with a dog that is suspected of killing livestock. They shoot or put them down in a minute. I am not letting Doogie out of my sight now and have kept him under complete control. He seems bored and it does not see very fair to him. I have not made a decision about what to do. I am hesitant at this time to approach the llama lady so soon about working around her stock to train Doogie. Do you agree with what Mary Ann in MH says? Maybe you know some one I can talk to about that option. Thanks.
 

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I feel bad for both parties involved. But what are the actual laws of the state? If they couldn't keep him I would rehome him, not put him down. I don't blame the dog. But probably everyone around has heard what he did and there are some vengeful people out there. Keeping the dog safe would now be a priority.
 

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Yes...I'm going to tell him the dog doesn't deserve to die...and I will offer help trying to get the dog in rescue if he doesn't want to continue with containing the dog. I don't feel confident in his shock collar plan..... My thoughts...any kind of training...won't matter if you're letting your dog roam the countryside....

thoughts on this...I don't want to give wrong advice.......
 

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Roaming isn't an option at all. Shock collar? Make the dog fear leaving and fear the llamas? Can you tell I am not much of a fan of shock collars? I know they sometimes have their place. Not much of a life for the dog if he is going to fear leaving home. It is good that he is still exercising him and trying to keep the dog occupied.
 

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In my personal opinion, the dog's owner should have never allowed his/her three dogs to just "run loose" around the neighborhood. Not only is that against the law in most places, it's also a very stupid thing to do. Not just because the dog could kill livestock, but also because the dog could get stolen, injured, mauled by a larger wild animal, hit by a car, or shot by a farmer protecting his livestock and family.

My advice would be the following:

1 - Put in a fence or dog run near the house where the dogs can be left outside safely, in a contained area, when no people are available to supervise them.

2 - Continue with play time and daily walks (at least 2x a day), as well as daily training on basic commands such as sit, down, stay, and come.

3 - Apologize to the llama owner, pay for damages (cost of the two llamas the dogs killed), and promise to contain your animals. No livestock owner should have to put up with roaming dogs, even if the owner wants to "come out and train them not to kill the livestock."

4 - Enroll in a training class showing you how to properly train and work with your dogs. Preferably one where the trainer will have a few words to say about allowing dogs to roam.
 

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keep your dogs penned or in the house. do something not to let them roam. i find it hard to believe that your Shep could take down a llama. llamas are used to protect herds. could it have been a pack of coyotes?? keep your dogs safe and in doing so other things will be safe from them.
 

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I know it probably sounds strange to someone that lives in a very rural area, but why not get a nice sized chain link kennel for your dog and keep him either there or in your house and let him loose only when you are supervising? Dogs do very well in dog runs if exercised properly.

Any dog roaming the country side is not under control and can end up in horrible situations. Once your dog has been fingered for killing livestock (true or not) there are very few people willing to give it a second chance. Not to mention what they think every time they see another GS.

Shock collars are the very last resort in training methods, in my book. Find a good trainer or behaviorist that can break your dog of preying on livestock. It can be done without involving your neighbor.
 

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Agreed with Historian, Dano and Betty. I live in a rural area with acreage, and I do not allow my dog to run loose. Too much potential for something bad to happen. When she is out, I am out with her. I know that around here, you are justified to shoot a dog if it is found harassing wildlife. There were some people who used to have 3 husky-type dogs running loose in a pack. I heard that two of them got shot for running moose. The third one got away, and is now kept tied up.

I just posted a story about Keeta breaking through the ice of a stream when we were out for a walk in the woods. She got stuck in a head-down position and couldn't pull herself back out. I jumped in and pulled her out. If she had been running around on her on when this happened, she would have drowned. Even if it wasn't your dog that killed the llamas, the fact that she was seen harassing them is enough to point blame at her. I would also take responsibility, and take steps for nothing like this to ever happen again.
 

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I own a dog that has high prey drive-he is confined in chain link quarter acre.I will NOT be in denial that if the right oportunity occurred he would become a predator.It would not be a food thing as he has killed squirriles and birds in his area.It is some kind of instinct that if you own a dog that he keys in to it despite training. you are a better person/better trainer than I am if you can stop it.If i catch it quick enough i can but otherwise it is survival of the quickest-not happy about it but sometimes can not control it.
 

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I wouldn't get an e-collar on loan with second hand instructions. And I doubt the llama people would want to risk losing another llama. Llamas are very aggressive so if it was this dog then he's quite the hunter. But those little Jack Russell's are very prey driven too so they might work well as a team. I hope this person is keeping all the dogs confined now.

I have lived in the country and in the mountains. No one had fences and loose dogs were everywhere. I guess this person has to decide if they want to worry about their dog being bored and try to rehome or whether they want to work with the dog. It sounds like they already have a system that's working. So I'd say either install a fence or continue to supervise the dogs at all times.
 

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Considering what has happened, I would rehome the dog.

The original poster did not give a lot of info regarding the dog's age, background, etc., and that might make a difference.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
This all started...when I responded to this email...saying I was not aware of such a group...then asked him if he needed help....

Comment or Inquiries: I am trying to contact a save a sheperd organization located in Missouri. I have a sheperd dog. I got him at an estate sale. He was a litter puppy. A lady from an organization similar to the save a sheperd organization had bought the litter. I asked if she would sell one of them and she agreed. The lady said she lived in a town North of Springfield Missouri. Can you tell me how to contact someone from that branch or chapter of the sheperd dog arganization. In the near future I may have to put this good dog up for an adoption. If I have to do that I would like to be sure he goes to a good home. Any local contact information would be appreciated. Thanks.
 
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