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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
We have a 2-year-old male rescue GSD/Great Pyrenees/Lab/Husky mutt who is super independent/not biddable but a happy, friendly guy who loves other dogs. We were considering getting him a sister and were thinking about a golden retriever as they tend to be people pleasers (opposite of him!) and we miss having a velcro type dog.

However, a 6-month-old female German Shepherd kind of fell into our lives, so here she is! After some initial food guarding by our first dog, we carefully separate while eating, and they seem to be doing well together. Lots of playing. However, she keeps finding old buried bones on our property (over the 25 years we have been here we have had 6 different dogs and she seems to be finding their total supply of buried bones) and then he will snarl/snap at her, and bowl her over to take it. Also, if she gets too close while he is sleeping he will snap at her.

My worry is that as she gets bigger and more confident, she is going to fight back and then we will have a problem. Any advice for teaching him to be more tolerant with her? Here she is. We think she is gorgeous :) Thank you!
Dog German shepherd dog Carnivore Dog breed Wood
 

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Jazmine Auf Der Marquis, Reacher Auf Der Marquis
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Hi and welcome to the site. Cute girl.

What do you mean by " not bidable"?

Does he know and listen to commands? Does he take corrections? Have you ever done a serious, never do that again correction?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Hi and welcome to the site. Cute girl.

What do you mean by " not bidable"?

Does he know and listen to commands? Does he take corrections? Have you ever done a serious, never do that again correction?
He "knows" commands but does not always follow them, or takes his sweet time doing so. Especially poor at recall and at times will still run from us if we are trying to fetch him from the property or when trying to load him in the car. He is not a dog that wants to please the humans, just himself.

From everything I have read about Great Pyrenees, it seems this is a common issue and he behaves much more like a Pyrenees than a GSD. Livestock Guardian dogs are designed to work independently from humans and think for themselves, which he definitely does. We have been to several trainers, both private and group, and work with him every day, but his need to roam, explore, and make his own decisions is super strong.

We have come to terms with it, and just ensure he is on leash when off our property. That being said, he is super sensitive and if he senses we are frustrated, or give him corrections, he avoids us even more, so we try to use positive only. My husband has given some serious corrections, and it did not help.

Is your suggestion that we correct him strongly when he snaps at her? Thanks for your reply.
 

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He "knows" commands but does not always follow them, or takes his sweet time doing so. Especially poor at recall and at times will still run from us if we are trying to fetch him from the property or when trying to load him in the car. He is not a dog that wants to please the humans, just himself.

From everything I have read about Great Pyrenees, it seems this is a common issue
The Husky part too
 

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He "knows" commands but does not always follow them, or takes his sweet time doing so. Especially poor at recall and at times will still run from us if we are trying to fetch him from the property or when trying to load him in the car. He is not a dog that wants to please the humans, just himself.

From everything I have read about Great Pyrenees, it seems this is a common issue and he behaves much more like a Pyrenees than a GSD. Livestock Guardian dogs are designed to work independently from humans and think for themselves, which he definitely does. We have been to several trainers, both private and group, and work with him every day, but his need to roam, explore, and make his own decisions is super strong.

We have come to terms with it, and just ensure he is on leash when off our property. That being said, he is super sensitive and if he senses we are frustrated, or give him corrections, he avoids us even more, so we try to use positive only. My husband has given some serious corrections, and it did not help.

Is your suggestion that we correct him strongly when he snaps at her? Thanks for your reply.
It sounds like you've been to trainers who don't know what they are doing.


The Husky part too
 

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We have a male GS mix (Samoyed, mutt) and a purebred GS female. Elke will take toys out of Duke's mouth but he's good about it. There is a significant age difference. Duke is a pup, Elke is a senior. Not sure how those things factor into their relationship. Duke is her third make companion and each has been different relationship. Best I can tell you is to let them work it out and don't pick a 'winner' and a 'martyr". Give treats, toys and meals equally but separately. It helps that Elke is my girl, Duke sticks to our son and my husband is the food/snackmaster. You might try dividing up their care so they are not competing for one person's attention.
 

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He "knows" commands but does not always follow them, or takes his sweet time doing so. Especially poor at recall and at times will still run from us if we are trying to fetch him from the property or when trying to load him in the car. He is not a dog that wants to please the humans, just himself.

From everything I have read about Great Pyrenees, it seems this is a common issue and he behaves much more like a Pyrenees than a GSD. Livestock Guardian dogs are designed to work independently from humans and think for themselves, which he definitely does. We have been to several trainers, both private and group, and work with him every day, but his need to roam, explore, and make his own decisions is super strong.

We have come to terms with it, and just ensure he is on leash when off our property. That being said, he is super sensitive and if he senses we are frustrated, or give him corrections, he avoids us even more, so we try to use positive only. My husband has given some serious corrections, and it did not help.

Is your suggestion that we correct him strongly when he snaps at her? Thanks for your reply.
I can understand having an independent dog. I’ve had many. They doesn’t preclude you from having reliable obedience. With consistent consequences for behaviors you will get consistent obedience. That means need to add negative consequences for not performing behaviors(known behaviors). The consequence has to match the behavior and the dog needs to understand how to correct themselves. If you find yourself on a situation where the dog runs from the pressure, then there are several places you probably have gone wrong. At that point you need to find someone knowledgeable to help you work through it.
 

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I watch a lot of Sheild's video's, this one got my attention and not in a good way. The body language on that dog is disturbing!
If it was posted in an attempt to show how bidable huskies are it failed. The dog looks miserable through most of the video. It does not WANT to listen, it knows it HAS to listen. The goal in training is always to make the animal want to, has to is a last resort and the perimeter fence of training. I know a handler who put OB titles on several huskies, Sibes and Mals. None looked like that.
I agree with Bearshandler. My dog has no right to remove food from another dog, I give and only I can take away. It is one thing to accept the limits of a dogs genetics, another thing entirely to use them as an excuse.
If you want to add a dog, any dog, you have work to do.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I watch a lot of Sheild's video's, this one got my attention and not in a good way. The body language on that dog is disturbing!
If it was posted in an attempt to show how bidable huskies are it failed. The dog looks miserable through most of the video. It does not WANT to listen, it knows it HAS to listen. The goal in training is always to make the animal want to, has to is a last resort and the perimeter fence of training. I know a handler who put OB titles on several huskies, Sibes and Mals. None looked like that.
I agree with Bearshandler. My dog has no right to remove food from another dog, I give and only I can take away. It is one thing to accept the limits of a dogs genetics, another thing entirely to use them as an excuse.
If you want to add a dog, any dog, you have work to do.
I appreciate your response. I will work on not allowing him to take things from her. It's tricky because she just shows up from the back forty with a bone and he's on it before I even notice sometimes.

I have never had a dog as challenging as him before (and I have had plenty of dogs, all of whom were well-behaved and obedient) and have put more work into him than all the others combined. It's just exceptionally difficult with him and I am at the point of either accepting him for who he is or being perpetually disappointed. Maybe it's not the genetics per se, but it's definitely his nature. We have considered rehoming many times - something else I never thought I'd consider.

Before him, I was one of those people who thought with enough training, any dog could be obedient, but he has changed my mind on that.

I will keep doing my best.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I can understand having an independent dog. I’ve had many. They doesn’t preclude you from having reliable obedience. With consistent consequences for behaviors you will get consistent obedience. That means need to add negative consequences for not performing behaviors(known behaviors). The consequence has to match the behavior and the dog needs to understand how to correct themselves. If you find yourself on a situation where the dog runs from the pressure, then there are several places you probably have gone wrong. At that point you need to find someone knowledgeable to help you work through it.
If you had asked me a few years ago, I would have agreed with you 100% but he is definitely different than any other dog I've met. Yes, we likely have made mistakes, but we, and the trainers, have all done hard work and progress is slow. I have cried many times with this one. I have decided to love him for his happy (if overly excitable nature) rather than be constantly stressed by his challenges.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
We have a male GS mix (Samoyed, mutt) and a purebred GS female. Elke will take toys out of Duke's mouth but he's good about it. There is a significant age difference. Duke is a pup, Elke is a senior. Not sure how those things factor into their relationship. Duke is her third make companion and each has been different relationship. Best I can tell you is to let them work it out and don't pick a 'winner' and a 'martyr". Give treats, toys and meals equally but separately. It helps that Elke is my girl, Duke sticks to our son and my husband is the food/snackmaster. You might try dividing up their care so they are not competing for one person's attention.
I appreciate your advice. That is kind of what we are doing right now, but my husband is away a lot, so it's usually just me trying to manage them. The guarding was bad at first, seemed to improve, but is getting worse again. I will keep at it.
 

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I watch a lot of Sheild's video's, this one got my attention and not in a good way. The body language on that dog is disturbing!
If it was posted in an attempt to show how bidable huskies are it failed. The dog looks miserable through most of the video. It does not WANT to listen, it knows it HAS to listen. The goal in training is always to make the animal want to, has to is a last resort and the perimeter fence of training. I know a handler who put OB titles on several huskies, Sibes and Mals. None looked like that.
I agree with Bearshandler. My dog has no right to remove food from another dog, I give and only I can take away. It is one thing to accept the limits of a dogs genetics, another thing entirely to use them as an excuse.
If you want to add a dog, any dog, you have work to do.
It was posted to show that there are trainers who know what they are doing and can gain control of independent strong willed dogs . The OP said: "We have been to several trainers, both private and group, and work with him every day, but his need to roam, explore, and make his own decisions is super strong."

The dog has to listen because that is what proofing and functional obedience is.

The husky had issues before Haz got him. I'm not concerned with a little stress because that will go away in time and with proper relationship with dog. The dog will also become stronger by learning to work through the stress.

 

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Fraserglens Ellie of Carmspack 16/12/2021
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It was posted to show that there are trainers who know what they are doing and can gain control of independent strong willed dogs . The OP said: "We have been to several trainers, both private and group, and work with him every day, but his need to roam, explore, and make his own decisions is super strong."

The dog has to listen because that is what proofing and functional obedience is.

The husky had issues before Haz got him. I'm not concerned with a little stress because that will go away in time and with proper relationship with dog. The dog will also become stronger by learning to work through the stress.

Hans do you work for shield?
 

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That may well be. In the rural are where we live, there are few options. Honestly, I'd rather he be less obedient but happy and friendly, than obedient but fearful.
Don't give commands you can't enforce or they are not commands but rather requests that the dog can blow off at will.

Reliable obedience requires proofing with corrections at exact times. Timing is important. Learn how to use "markers" if you don't use them already.

Also, frustration and corrections don't work well together.

Haz from Shield K9 has many free videos that may help you or give you more ideas.

He "knows" commands but does not always follow them, or takes his sweet time doing so. Especially poor at recall and at times will still run from us if we are trying to fetch him from the property or when trying to load him in the car. He is not a dog that wants to please the humans, just himself.
That being said, he is super sensitive and if he senses we are frustrated, or give him corrections, he avoids us even more, so we try to use positive only.
We have considered rehoming many times - something else I never thought I'd consider.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
Don't give commands you can't enforce or they are not commands but rather requests that the dog can blow off at will.

Reliable obedience requires proofing with corrections at exact times. Timing is important. Learn how to use "markers" if you don't use them already.

Also, frustration and corrections don't work well together.

Haz from Shield K9 has many free videos that may help you or give you more ideas.
I appreciate your time. I am definitely guilty of allowing him to blow off commands. Right now he gets to run and play on our property and that would have to stop in order for me to work on listening every time. Don't honestly think I am up to that. Perhaps this group is not for me after all, as it seems you are all pretty serious about serious obedience. I just want a nice, friendly, happy dog!
 
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