That's what I was looking for Laren. Thanks
If this is the breeder I'm thinking of, would you really consider GSD #2 to be from a reputable breeder though? Based on everything I've heard... he's just a fancy BYB charging responsible breeding prices.Only my experience
GSD #1 from a byb, missing a toe nail, had Demodex mange twice and there was a concern that he might have mild HD.
GSD #2 from a breeder, staph infection, multiple worms, inverted vulva, fleas and later developed EPI.
I didn't say reputable, I merely said breeder.If this is the breeder I'm thinking of, would you really consider GSD #2 to be from a reputable breeder though? Based on everything I've heard... he's just a fancy BYB charging responsible breeding prices.
GotchaI didn't say reputable, I merely said breeder.
I plead the 5th on this comment. I will PM you.
Hey now, those things aren't incompatible.I also like pursuing dog sports that my dog seems to enjoy, but unlike some others here, I can’t imagine a day where the sport would determine the dog I would seek out.... maybe that is just because I am not looking to compete, my motivation is to form an even stronger relationship with my dog.
Hey now, those things aren't incompatible.
Anyway I wanted to go back and touch on this point because I think performance sports have the potential to be an important corrective to some of the deleterious influences of the conformation ring. Obviously this isn't as simple as Sport Good, Show Bad -- there's still a risk of hyperspecialization and overuse of popular/winning dogs, just in a different direction -- but I do think that the breeds where there's not such a clear-cut division between conformation and performance, and the breed fanciers expect that a champion dog will also have advanced sport titles, are in better shape than the GSD.
Of course, I'm a bigtime dog sport partisan and think it's a good thing for rescue dogs, too!
Congratulations on the baby Jamie.GSD # 1 - BYB, purchased at 12 wks, no health or major temperament issues *knock wood*
GSD #2 - BYB/Shelter, took into foster care at 1 yr (his breeder was forced to turn him in) and kept him. No temp or health issues *knock wood*
GSD #2 - puppy mill/rescue. Have her pedigree, nothing special. Bought by older couple who turned her into a rescue that I fostered her for and kept her. Was itchy as a pup requiring special food, still doesn't do well on a bunch of "high end" foods, some GI issues, fear aggressive. Hard to say if her issues are genetic or due to the extremely poor handling by her first owners.
7 years in GSD rescue as a foster and evaluator and most of the dogs I see do not have significant health or temperament issues. I can probably count them on one or at least both hands.
Would I buy from a BYB again? No. Would I get a rescue again? Possibly. My needs have changed for what I need in a dog. So, with that in mind and since I now have a child I would likely go to a well known, reputable breeder unless I came across a dog I really liked in rescue. But that's a ways off since 3 is my limit and they are all relatively young.
Well if your child's temperament doesn't turn out to well you can blame it on your husbands genetics or the way he was raised.
Are we talking about purebreds? I tend to see trends depending on the breed. I've seen a LOT of poorly bred purebreds, and yes, I believe they do have more health problems than those bred ethically with health and proper temperament as a concern. For example, I see a lot of Shih Tzus, and the BYB dogs have skin, ear, eye, and skeletal issues. Lots of VERY bad structure, to the point of crippling.I get the concept of the ethical breeder, I'm just wondering if BYB. shelter, rescue dogs are really proportionately higher represented with health and temperament problems.
I see a lot of nervous, spooky, hypersensitive BYB GSDs. I think that in our breed, temperament is the hardest thing to nail down and if it isn't rigorously tested for, this is what happens. For the physical ailments like HD/ED, allergies, GI issues, and autoimmune disorders, they can pop up in any breeding and in thinking about it, I honestly can't say whether BYB GSDs are worse in this respect. Part of it is that average BYB pet owners don't xray, they don't test for things until they start seeing symptoms. So some things like HD/ED may remain undiagnosed.It's been my experience that BYB GSDs do tend to have a lot of problems. Spooky/flighty or fear-aggressive temperaments, HD, and extremely sensitive stomachs/allergy issues are some of the things I often see.
Indeed, not all BYBs are equal. Some of what many would consider BYBs may actually be producing healthier dogs than top show breeders. Some of these top show breeders, although many would consider them "reputable", are breeding primarily to win conformation shows. And we all know what happens when a breeders #1 concern is winning.Now, to your question – do “BYBers” produce a disproportionate amount of dogs with health and temperament problems? I doubt it.
But, I would say the answer would depend on the type of BYBer we are talking about. Are we talking about the BYBer that has a great pet? The BYBer who needs to make some extra cash? The one that thinks this is a great long-term money making business? The one that has a fabulous working farm dog?
Hi Merceil,I pretty much agree with everything you've written, I just want to pick out some of these points for further discussion.
It's been my experience that BYB GSDs do tend to have a lot of problems. Spooky/flighty or fear-aggressive temperaments, HD, and extremely sensitive stomachs/allergy issues are some of the things I often see. My guess, which is only a guess, is that this is because the breed overall is in such bad shape owing in large part to the influences you described in your post, and BYBs simply do not have the knowledge (or, probably, access to the better bloodlines) necessary to fix it.
I feel like with many/most BYB dogs, what you get out is pretty much what you put in (or very slightly worse), and since the input dogs are not great, the outcome dogs are not great either.
It has not been my personal experience that BYB dogs in other breeds have the same number or severity of problems. I've seen plenty of BYB dogs that were nice pets but didn't have whatever original instincts the breed was supposed to show -- i.e., Beagles who won't hunt, Labs who won't retrieve, that sort of thing -- but what I see in those dogs is not the same as what I've seen in GSDs who land in our rescue network.
But mostly I see the dogs who get dumped in shelters and thereby make their way into the adoption networks I volunteer with, so there may well be some sample skewing going on there. It may be that those dogs are getting dumped because they have issues, I don't know. Even if it is, though, the fact remains that as a group they have a lot more problems than the mutts or other breeds we see.