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Discussion Starter #1
Manic-depressive poops! This is what I was worried about in switching to raw.
I am on day 4 of Grimm's switch. The first day or two, he had tiny but ideal poops. In the morning yesterday, his poop was supertiny and very hard. Then, yesterday afternoon-- oh, horrors-- watery stool! Only a very tiny amount of stool. Today I noticed in the fluid poop(still just a teeny amount of poop, but watery) there were bone fragments. Does this mean he has an impaction somewhere from too much bone, and the fluid is squirting around the traffic jam? Does it mean that he is getting too much MM? Or, does this mean that this kinda poops can be normal at first during a switch, and that I am THE Classic Hysterical Owner??


I am ready to be sent off to The Home For The Befuddled.
He was, it seemed, having tiny, rockhard poops (almost contipated, but not sure he was straining.. maybe i only know kibble poops?).. and now watery, tiny stool! Manic-depressive poops!


He is getting 2X day:
approximately 350 gramm turkey drum for RMB
approximately 200 gramm ground turkey as MM
1 tsp brewers yeast (he has been on that for 3 weeks)
4 tablespoons (is this the problem?) fat-free plain yogurt (normally he was been getting 1 heaping tsp)

The skin is left on the turkey drum, but the ground MM is pretty lean turkey meat.

I would estimate Grimm to weigh 80 lbs, medium active, and will fill out to be about 95 at maturity. (he is ribby now
)

BTW-- There is no canned pumpkin in Germany.


What should I change? Less yogurt? More MM? Less MM?
 

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Make sure the yogurt doesn't have nutra-sweet or artificial sweetner (Poison to dogs) -- Why not just use natural organic yogurt and just 1 tsp? Not a professional, just a thought


Hope he is feeling better!


Maybe ask a vet about food plan?

Sending my best he is better.
 

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Sounds like too much bone. Try some canned pumpkin (do they have that over there?) to help gets things moving.

Since the turkey drum bone is bigger and harder than chicken bones you might want to lower the amount of that and increase the muscle meat.
 

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Can you get turkey necks or maybe thighs? Necks are boney, but they are smaller bones.

I agree it sounds like too much bone, I would add more meat. I don't like turkey legs for that reason, bones are hard! Turkey thighs are great, smaller bones and more meat.

Can you buy some pumpkin and cook it yourself?

You might want to try some pork spare ribs or look for pork brisket bones they are what they make the "riblets" out of. These pork bones are softer (I give them to puppies so your boy could easily eat them) and not as fatty.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
Thanks Lauri. No canned pumpkin here in Germany.
I cannot saw through the turkey drum to make it smaller.. but I can add more MM. Should that do the trick?

Or should I switch turkey drums for turkes necks? I can do that! I also have.. gasp!!.. turkes WINGS. They are HUGE! I never knew it was possible to buy turkey wings. But... are necks best? Less bone? Or, rather, smaller type bones, even though neck is a more bone-y meal than a drum?

GSMom, pork is not safe to feed raw to dogs here, according to the raw feeders online forum in Germany.
 

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Turkey necks might be better than legs. If he is having issues with the turkey drumsticks I would go with wings over the drumsticks too but you will need to add considerable MM to them as well. Wings will also have more skin so more fat. Necks might be the easiest to feed with MM.

I feed all three but I can rotate around between 6 dogs so no one gets too much of anything.
There are some advantages to extra mouths at dunner time.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Okay, tomorrow will be wings. I have no necks yet. Tonight it will have to be yet another drum, but I will add extra MM. Poor Grimmi!
 

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I would keep him off of all bones for a good two, three days, only feed MM (maybe w. cooked potatoes to settle his stomach) and then start with the wing or neck. Avoid giving him turkey drumsticks for several days in a row and do more roation. Maybe it would be better to reconsider the feeding plan % and cut down on the bones and add up the meat instead.
Hope Grimm feels better soon!
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Thank you Mädchen! Gonna give him a full meal of MM tonight. Might start a wing tomorrow with MM... being on the 12th floor, I do not feel safe going a few days with just MM. But, I am thinking I may reconsider the % as you suggested! I gotta see what works best for him. I probably will rarely give a turkey drum. Necks are easy to get here. Are turkey wings too bone-y like drum? Wings might be better, maybe? The drums seem huge anf fat bones.
 

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Turkey wings are pretty high in bone and low in meat. They're also fattier, as Ruq mentioned, due to the large amount of skin on them. Turkey necks will also be similarly higher in bone. I would also recommend adding more meat to his diet. Raw poops are generally harder than kibble poops but if they're pretty light in color and he's straining a bit, he might be getting a bit too much bone in his diet.

I know whenever I feed Risa a particularly boney cut of meat, I make sure to feed her a less boney meal before and after feeding it. And I almost always follow it with a completely MM meal to avoid constipation.
 

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Personally, I'd go with the turkey necks. While they do have more bone than the drum or wing it is easier to adjust the quantity. I'd start with a 50/45/5 ratio - 50% RMB, 45% MM and 5% OM.

As for MM only and loose stools - that's not quite true. I've had Riggs on a no bone diet for over 4 months now (ever since he was diagnosed with growing tumor in his anus).

Warning - gonna get GROSS here!!

While his stools do have more liquid to them they are not what I would call loose. The stools are completely formed, he just passes some liquid at the beginning and ending of the bowl movement.

The only time he has accidents in the house is when he gets ANY bone. Then he gets plugged up and can't always go in the timeframe he has in the mornings.

Just to clarify - the ONLY reason Riggs is on a NO BONE diet is because he has a tumor on his rectum. As it grows it pushes into the rectum and makes it harder for him to pass stool. That's why we try to keep the stoll as soft as possible.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Lauri, extra BIG HUGS to you for being so kind and adding your knowledge for me here.. and scritches to sweetie-boy
handsome hunka Riggs for me, please! I am a RiggsFan. How could anyone NOT be after the Christmastree photos?? It really sounds like you are managing him just great. The MM only diet in his case really is probably easiest for him. He is such a LUCKY dog, as are all your dogs, to have YOU for a Mom!!

Okay.. necks. I can find necks. I can see what you mean Lauri, while they are more bone, it is easier to guestimate bone percentage better with a neck than a whopper gigantic bone turkey drum.


I gve Grimm a MM meal last night, a meal with MM and half a turkey wing as RMB this morning, and I think tonight I will give just a MM meal again as he had a tiny stool with much straining this afternoon. GAAAHH!! I *will* get this right! LOL Next week is our second week of raw, another "turkey week." I'll use necks for the RMB. Should I wait until the watery stools/constipation is resolved and I have the bone ratio settled on, before I add any OM?


Weird fact: My plan was later this year, to get Grimm in for a dental. He is 19 months old. BUT... Grimm has only been on raw 4.5 days..... and already the orange-ish tartar on his teeth, at the very tooth-tips, seems to be disappearing!
Leaving totally WHITE teeth on the tooth summits! Am I mistaken? Too soon to see this sort of improvement?
 

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No, you're not mistaken. The tartar on Ris' molars disappeared almost right away when I started her on raw. She still has a bit near the base of her canines and a couple other teeth left over from her previous life.

Don't feel too bad about a slightly constipated Grimm. I gave too much bone when I started with Ris. So much so, she had a couple days of poop that was DUST.
 
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