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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hello! I just drove 7.5 hours to pick up our 8week old gsd puppy and he only weighs about 5 pounds (guessing) he seems a lot smaller than our female we have when she was 8 weeks. He will be going to the vet on Friday for his first check up with us. Is this normal? He’s ckc registered, doesn’t that mean he’s for sure pure bred? Mom and dad were on site. Mom is 95lb and dad is 110lb
 

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Weigh him on your scale at home to get an accurate weight.

He's very cute!
 

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Couple things. How do you know he's only 5 pounds if you haven't weighed him? You'll need an accurate weight before you start to worry. Sometimes people are totally off with guesstimates! I tend to be.

By CKC, do you mean Canadian Kennel Club? If yes, then he is purebred for sure.

Does your breeder require your pup to get into the vet within 72 hours of take home? Most responsible breeders do. I would want to get my pup in ASAP. Not because of his weight, but to make sure he's healthy and doesn't have any issues or things that will pass along to my current dog.

He's adorable. Congratulations!
 

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Mom is 95#??? That's HUGE for a female. 70# is a big female. And Dad is 110#? I would be surprised if they actually weighed that.

5#? That's little. Super little. My female was 1 of 12 and weighed 14# at 9 weeks. So the other puppies are even smaller than this?? Are you sure he's the age they said he is? He's about 1/2 the size he should be.

CKC? Canadian Kennel Club? Or Continental Kennel Club?
 

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The puppy does not look 8 weeks old to me, but your vet may be able to give a better indicator as he/she can look at the teeth. Are the eyes blue, where they should be amber? This would be normal in a much younger puppy. I think the pup looks about 4-5 weeks old, six weeks at most.

A 90 pound bitch does not indicate that she isn't a GSD. People in America have been breeding over-size forever. In fact it isn't a fault here. In fact, I took a bitch who was 23 pounds at the withers to a show and joked with a judge who is a member of the club I was a member of, and said she was a "Tea-cup Germanshepherd." She looked at me with horror, and I laughed. I said, she is actually 23 inches at the withers. And she said, "well that is not what is going in the ring." No, people expect a GSD bitch to be around 65 to 72 pounds or more. And Quinnie was 53 pounds soaking wet. She was little.

So the super-sizing of the sire and dam doesn't raise any flags. Really. But CKC, if it is Canadian Kennel Club, you might lodge a complaint with them if the vet says the puppy is much younger than eight weeks. Because that is a reputable organization, and while they may not do anything about your complaint alone, if they have other complaints on this breeder, something might be done. And breeders who are unethical in a little are unethical in a lot, and you are not the first, nor will you be the last.

If it was Continental Kennel Club, than you've been had on a platter. The reason people go to these crappy registries is because they either have dogs that are not eligible for breeding because they bought a pup on limited registration, or they are on the outs with the AKC, suspended temporarily or permanently from all privileges. How this happens is cruel conditions, lying on paperwork, being convicted of cruelty to animals. The AKC does not want to suspend anyone because they get money from litter and puppy registrations, but when it is brought to their attention that people are giving a bad name to the sport of purebred dogs, or doing anything that puts a question on the validity of the dog's ancestry, the AKC as a registry does act.

The CKC (continental), I don't think you have anywhere to go there. BUT, almost every state has a minimum age in which dogs may be sold and you can lodge a complaint with animal control that they are selling dogs that are much younger than they are saying. IF the vet gives you a good opinion on that.

The rules/laws for selling puppies at a certain age is because it really is best for the puppy to be with its dam and litter, even if they are fully weaned, and at four weeks, we are just starting with solid food. Ah well.

The pup is cute, and he will be fine, but get him in to the vet, if they are putting pups out early, they may be compromised in other ways. A whole litter, at eight weeks that are that small is really questionable. Poor nutrition? Worms? Cocci?
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
Mom is 95#??? That's HUGE for a female. 70# is a big female. And Dad is 110#? I would be surprised if they actually weighed that.

5#? That's little. Super little. My female was 1 of 12 and weighed 14# at 9 weeks. So the other puppies are even smaller than this?? Are you sure he's the age they said he is? He's about 1/2 the size he should be.

CKC? Canadian Kennel Club? Or Continental Kennel Club?
That is what she told me. I saw both parents and they didn’t look like they weighed that much.
So I weighed him on my scale and it was roughly 4 pounds. My female was roughly 13 at 8 weeks so I’m a little concerned. continental kennel club
 

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Couple things. How do you know he's only 5 pounds if you haven't weighed him? You'll need an accurate weight before you start to worry. Sometimes people are totally off with guesstimates! I tend to be.

By CKC, do you mean Canadian Kennel Club? If yes, then he is purebred for sure.

Does your breeder require your pup to get into the vet within 72 hours of take home? Most responsible breeders do. I would want to get my pup in ASAP. Not because of his weight, but to make sure he's healthy and doesn't have any issues or things that will pass along to my current dog.

He's adorable. Congratulations!
I weighed him at home and he is roughly 4 pounds. He feels very fragile and I can feel his ribs. I thought it was canine but it is continental. I guess that’s my fault for assuming. I’ve never heard of the other.
She said we have 30 days to get him to a vet. And if there is anything genetic wrong she’ll give us credit for a new puppy.
We are going to call the vet first thing Monday to see what we can do.
 

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oh boy.

You bought from BYB. CKC registration is typically used when the parents aren't AKC registered. It doesn't mean your dog isn't purebred. But you have the puppy now and all you can do is care for him. I would verify age as best you can. If under 8 weeks, there are laws in most states that puppies can't leave the mother until 8 weeks. If your vet feels they are neglected, call ACS and report her.

With that many puppies, she would have needed to supplement and rotate the puppies to make sure they all ate. They may not have had enough to eat.

We bought a Boxer once that was only 4#. Her litter mates were fat and happy and an appropriate weight. She was all beat to **** and back. I dont' think they separated her so she could eat.
 

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Well, you’re dealing with an irresponsible breeder. I would guess he’s unhealthy (parasites of some kind, I’m sure) and/or not as old as was claimed. I would get pet insurance on him as soon as you can.
 

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I've had litters of 10 and 11 puppies and have never rotated them. And even Cupcake, the little pup that shouldn't have made it got to 8 pounds by 8 weeks, though she was raised as a singleton. Most pups from large litters will be a little smaller than a 3-4 pup litter might be. But 10 pounds should be the smallest a pup should be at 8 weeks old, even from a large litter.

This pup looks about four weeks or less. Actually, we should hope for that, because if it is of age, then we are looking at something congenital, like MegaE, or serious mal nutrition. And it is probably not protected at all against any diseases, so be very careful where you take the pup. Getting shots at this age is a mixed bag, since they will probably not be effective. I would definitely take the pup to the vet, and go from there.
 
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Never heard of the Continental Kennel Club.

As I understand it, pups from larger litters tend to be smaller than pups from smaller litters. It kind of makes sense...there's 11 crammed inside as opposed to 5. My first dog came from a litter of 11. His mother was also an athletic 95lbs. He was the largest male pup. He grew to a thin 98lbs (he had EPI). My current dog came from a litter of 5 and he was noticeably larger at 8 weeks than my other one was. My guess...your boy's gonna be a big one.
 

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They are smaller at birth, usually. Instead of the average weight of the puppies being 24 ounces at birth, a litter of 10 puppies might go as follows: 22.2oz, 20oz, 16.9oz 16.5oz, 16.3oz, 16.3oz, 15.8oz, 14.4oz, 13.4oz, 12.8oz.

They will all lose an ounce or two over the next 24 hours. By 48 hours, all will have gained back their birth weight and some will have gained an ounce or two. From that point, they gain, some at a higher slope than others. But all will reach 10 pounds by eight weeks.

Years ago, (her dam will be 12 in October, and was 4 when she had the litter, so 8 years ago, I lost three puppies out of an inported litter, and the one, the smallest, that kept hanging on, Cupcake, struggled. It took her 3 weeks to gain back her birthweight. I have a thread on here, and it was a miserable time. The puppy wasn't even mine, it went for the stud fee. But I struggled to keep her alive. She made it to 8 pounds by 8 weeks. And that was out of a rather small bitch and as it was an imported litter, the sire HAD to be within standard, the SV standard that does measure every dog to ensure they are neither over size, nor over weight.

As for how big they are at eight weeks determining how big they will be. Cujo1 was the smallest at birth and grew at a smaller slope than all the others of his litter. So he was markably smaller than the rest of the litter at eight weeks. He turned out to be the largest. Another litter, the litter of 10 had four bitches. The two big ones, Lavender and fern went first. Violet and Rosie were the smaller bitches, and Violet became Joy and I took her to puppy classes when she was 10 weeks old. Fern was there, she was named Zibba. By the end of the classes, at 16 weeks, Joy was larger than Fern.

We worry a lot about size. I always tell my folks that the puppy will be the perfect size when full grown. If the folks do not absolutely love the dog by the time it is 2-3 years old, well it just hasn't happened yet. And if you love the dog, you are no longer concerned about how big it is. I LOVED Quinnie's size at 53 pounds. She was perfect in my opinion. Ramona is similar in size.

The thing is, oftentimes, when they naturally grow very fast it can be an indicator of hip problems, and also can have pano. Obviously, we do not want to prevent natural growth through mal-nutrition, though folks do try this. The growth is what it is. What we need to do is keep the nutrition balanced so that the dog gets enough and not too much of a good thing, which can turn a good thing, like calcium into a bad thing, like calcium deposits.
 

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Here is the thread about cupcake. It is not easy reading, as there is a lot of grief in there. I went through nearly what I went through the last 15 months, but in 8 weeks. It has a bittersweet ending though. The point is that this pup was 8 pounds at 8 weeks, and with what she went through, I don't know how we have a baby at 4 pounds here that claims to be eight weeks.

https://www.germanshepherds.com/for...oming-breeder/149422-so-you-want-breeder.html
 

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I wasn’t around for this one @selzer, I can’t even imagine going through that. Glad you got one that made it!

A lot of BYB’s sell off their pups as soon as they are taking soft solid foods, around 4 weeks, and tell buyers they are older. Keeping them around until 8 weeks means they don’t turn enough profit with the amount of feed and medical they need between 4-8 weeks. It’s disgusting, and I report as many of these “breeders” as possible when I find them. I hope you pup leads a happy and healthy life! I’d look for a super stable dog that has puppy experience, fully vaccinated, and setup play dates in your home so the adult can show the puppy bite inhibition and when playing gets too rough. A stable older dog will teach pups pulled too young from the bitch the manner the bitch and littermates would have taught it.

Keep us updated! I’m curious to see what the vet thinks of this. It’s either severe malnutrition, internal parasites, much younger than the breeder claims, or it could be a combo of all the above. If he is 4 weeks (which is likely) I’d look up Leerburgs formula recipe and soak the kibble in that. It would continue that until 6 weeks, then slowly start decreasing the milk until he’s weaned from that by 8 weeks.
 

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I wasn’t around for this one @selzer, I can’t even imagine going through that. Glad you got one that made it!

A lot of BYB’s sell off their pups as soon as they are taking soft solid foods, around 4 weeks, and tell buyers they are older. Keeping them around until 8 weeks means they don’t turn enough profit with the amount of feed and medical they need between 4-8 weeks. It’s disgusting, and I report as many of these “breeders” as possible when I find them. .
around here, it's not illegal. And the selling pups (or giving them away) at 4-6 weeks is because that people really believe that if mom is starting to wean, pups are ready to go. Until recently, it was possible to find vets here that would agree with that because mom isn't providing their primary nutrition.
 

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I don't think it is the cost of food or vet care, or it is the because they feel that if the dam is weaning they are ready. I think it is very simple and very selfish and very lazy.

Once the pups start eating solid food, the dam stops cleaning up after them. The amount of poop a litter of eleven puts out is staggering, especially if they have them contained for the most part in a swimming pool. They will jump out of the pool by then, so then things start getting tougher. Keeping them in a small area, they will roll in the poop and become poopie, smelly puppies real quickly. And bathing them every time someone comes to look is difficult.

The answer is to have a large area, with ground cover like wood chips that absorb a lot of the yuck, clean it daily, and if a puppy needs to be cleaned off, clean it off.

But once the dam staps cleaning them, the work increases, and folks are ready to let them go.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I wasn’t around for this one @selzer, I can’t even imagine going through that. Glad you got one that made it!

A lot of BYB’s sell off their pups as soon as they are taking soft solid foods, around 4 weeks, and tell buyers they are older. Keeping them around until 8 weeks means they don’t turn enough profit with the amount of feed and medical they need between 4-8 weeks. It’s disgusting, and I report as many of these “breeders” as possible when I find them. I hope you pup leads a happy and healthy life! I’d look for a super stable dog that has puppy experience, fully vaccinated, and setup play dates in your home so the adult can show the puppy bite inhibition and when playing gets too rough. A stable older dog will teach pups pulled too young from the bitch the manner the bitch and littermates would have taught it.

Keep us updated! I’m curious to see what the vet thinks of this. It’s either severe malnutrition, internal parasites, much younger than the breeder claims, or it could be a combo of all the above. If he is 4 weeks (which is likely) I’d look up Leerburgs formula recipe and soak the kibble in that. It would continue that until 6 weeks, then slowly start decreasing the milk until he’s weaned from that by 8 weeks.
Thank you for your feedback, I will sure post an update as soon as I have one. Right now we are just trying to care for him the best we can
 

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Never heard of the Continental Kennel Club.

As I understand it, pups from larger litters tend to be smaller than pups from smaller litters. It kind of makes sense...there's 11 crammed inside as opposed to 5. .
They are. But not that much smaller.
 
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