GSD Color Coat Chart

You've probably explained it better than I have /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/01_smile.gif There is, however some debate that the bicolor ("at" allele) is not actually determined in the agouti locus. But for all intents and purposes, this melanistic feature is included "supposedly" without affecting the reliability of the chart.

Angela,

Good idea /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/03_wink.gif I outlined the white lettering with shadow (no other color seemed to stand out any better). If you go to the page and refresh you should see a difference. Probably best viewed at about 150% magnification.

Nevermind--answered my own question. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/01_smile.gif Cool chart, btw.

An old thread but a new question...

Is the info below accurate?

http://www.4germanshepherds.com/white_german_shepherds.htm

Quote:Good" breeders won't let a white breed into their lines. It is not only a Disqualifying fault, the white gene also DILUTES the colors of the following generations of dogs coming from that line. Breeding a white to a black/tan (or other accepted color) washes out the colors of the offspring. If allowed to continue, in a few generations 'normal' colors would be whipped out.

For this reason, the gene pool available to the white German Shepherd is very narrow. Because of this, they are more prone to genetic disorders. They also can get skin cancer, which normal color shepherds do not get.

The black dog will IMPROVE the pigment on any standard color dog it is bred to, so they are often used to breed with 'more usual' color German Shepherds.

Click to expand...

As a masking gene (& recessive), wouldn't the expression of white be an all or nothing phenomenon (barring the light cream shadings which are sometimes present). IF black is a true recessive, wouldn't it fail to express unless the dog is homozygous for it? Or are they more accurately co-expressed? Given that white dogs have normal dark pigment are they more prone to skin cancers? Are they really more prone to other genetic disorders?

IF the masking & black genes are co-expressed, wouldn't that too be largely an all or nothing phenomenon, ie those dogs heterozygous for each gene would have a fairly predictable color, not color that faded or enriched with subsequent generations? Regardless of the passing of generations, if co-expression is seen, wouldn't it be the same heterozygous state that's inherited/expressed? Wouldn't color fading or enriching generally be expected with additive genes?

Although I think the breeder's info could be wrong, this isn't intended as a criticism of her. She doesn't breed whites & might not be aware of the details associated with its inheritance. I don't breed whites, or any other color, so I could be completely wrong in how I've interpreted the little I've read.

No - it's incorrect. it's not the Extension Locus that dilutes the tan color - it's the Intensity Locus - now if my theory on the Intensity Locus and cream in the coat is right - breeders are selecting for more white in the coat - so by default they are selecting for more dilution if bred to a colored dog.

For the health - hogwash - I imagine that they wouldnt have become recognized overseas if the gene pool was so small. additionally - we're very snarky about our genetics. Most of us are members of the WSGenetics Project - which is our way of looking at diseases - the very same diseases that affect German Shepherds. You can have a look at that here : http://www.wsgenetics.org It may seem like alot - but I imagine that's because we're very good about collecting and displaying the information on our breed. I know Majorie is working on one for the GSD - which is great too

And the thing about breeding to black is an old wives tale that alot of people subscribe to. It's possible that maybe carrying the recessive allele for black will make the black blacker, but it wont change the red in the coat - that would show some incomplete dominance - but I've never seen anything to that affect. As far as I know the solid black coat is simply the expression of no patterm at the agouti locus.

As a masking gene the white only affects the fur - not the skin. I've posted pictures of my own dogs for you where you can see there pigment (leather) is very dark - Ruby came out with better pigment than a couple of colored litters I've seen. Additionally - it is all or nothing - you're either homozugous or not - if you're not the dog might carry for it.

The black also - though like I said there is some possibility that there might be some incomplete dominance...though as I said - I've never seen any research to that.

White Shepherds are not any more prone to cancer because their skin isnt any different than that of a colored dog. The white doesnt make them anymore prone to *anything* that a colored German Shepherd is not just as prone to.

The information is incorrect - and displays the same bias that is the reason I am perfectly happy seperating from the GSD as they have done in Europe. It's an old wives tale with no basis or research behind it to support it.

Additionally - if you are interested in the mode of inheritance of the white coat in the GSD - the link I provided before to Sheila Schmutz - she has published something in the Journal of Heredity in that regard.

One last note - the cause of white in Shepherds is exactly what causes yellow in labs - that's just the extreme level of cream there.

~Cate

I think there is a little merit to breeding white dogs potentially diluting the lines, not because the dog is white but because we have no idea what the color of the dog is UNDER the white. If you're breeding a deeply pigmented and richly colored dog that is white from the masking gene and consistently do this, then no, there will be no paling of color. However, if the dogs are weakly colored underneath the masking gene, well there you go. It's not directly the white, only indirectly and only because we don't see what's really going on. Also, I think the author may be influenced by what is seen in most litters that breed a colored to a white dog- black and silvers, mostly tan with little black, just a bunch of pet breedings. I wonder if the author looked into the good BBS breedings. Just my two cents, I could be wrong, though.

Everything else said sounds off base to me. Also, what about the whites with poor pigment? There are whites with pale noses and skin, do those have health issues?

Daryl - have I asked you to marry me yet? I think you're the only guy I know who goes through the J.Hered

I have seen that...the article is printed in my dog genetics binder which also has a bunch of other color, health, temperment and even historical articles from the JAS, J.Hered and Mammalian Genome

Gotta love this stuff

~Cate