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Do you use any cleaners on the floors that he could lick? How about essential oils? My friends dog was yelping periodically and theg really couldn't find anything(they were thinking his back)and then she noticed he yelped after being exposed to essential oils at night--don't know why, but that is her observation--no oils, no yelping.

Some times they foam if they have an icky taste in their mouth--same with the clacking of jaws. My dogs foam if they lick a toad. Anything like that?
 

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He's had another one. Big one. Heading back to the e vet.

Thoughts and prayers please.
Oh geez...lots of prayers and thoughts.

I hope they figure it out. My gut is telling me something environmental of those darn vaccines. The aluminum and Thimerosal can cause issues. The vet has to acknowledge this and not insist its not the vaccine. Can they even test for that?

Stay strong my friend.
 

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Edit...

I know they can test for it, but I would request blood, urine and fecal to test for it. See what the results are for all three.
 

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I can't think of any veterinary vaccines anymore that contain thimerosol. Maybe some rabies formulations, but the last major 3 year rabies vaccine removed thimerosol in 2003. Not that it is a scare regardless! It is NOT the same as "toxic mercury" everyone screams about. You harm yourself more eating saltwater fish than getting a thimerosol-containing vaccine. Study after study after study has found no harm from thimerosol vaccine.

As far as aluminum, again, MINIMAL amount in vaccine adjuvants. I believe the typical vaccine only contains about 0.2-0.8 mg of aluminum. You personally ingest about 7-10 mg of aluminum a day. The typical antacid contains 100 mg-200 mg of aluminum.

The biggest side effect I've seen related to vaccines is immune-mediated - specifically things like IMHA. I would find a connection between seizures and vaccines given almost 4 months ago to be a pretty big stretch.

18 months is nearing the typical age to see idiopathic epilepsy come on, if no other causes can be found. And remember, it's a really hard condition to deal with, and scary, but idiopathic epilepsy is literally just seizures with no known cause. German shepherds, unfortunately, are prone to it. There are many dogs not controlled with phenobarb. Was he continuously seizing at the vet? Typically we don't even start anti-seizure medications unless they're having more than 1 seizure every 8-10 days or the seizures are lasting a prolonged amount of time.

I'm going to assume you saw a neurologist if a spinal tap and MRI were done. There is no harm with a second opinion, especially with your family vet, but the neurologists have the experience to know best. If you didn't see a neurologist, then definitely go see one.

I'm sorry this is happening to you. I know how terrifying it is to see seizures.


Adjuvants in Veterinary Vaccines: Modes of Action and Adverse Effects - Spickler - 2008 - Journal of Veterinary Internal Medicine - Wiley Online Library

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/15479435

Study Reports Aluminum in Vaccines Poses Extremely Low Risk to Infants

http://pediatrics.aappublications.org/content/112/5/1039?maxtos=&variant=abstract&sso=1&sso_redirect_count=1&nfstatus=401&nftoken=00000000-0000-0000-0000-000000000000&nfstatusdescription=ERROR:+No+local+token
 

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Just got home. They let me bring him home this time. The gave him some valium and we're trying a different dosage of the pheno.

Sorry for the short reply. Exhausted. Will be back after sleep.

Thank you all again. You're helping me keeping my head during this.
 

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Dr. Jean Dodds: "Blood is my thing."
"I am by training a veterinary hematologist and immunologist. After graduation from veterinary school, I was a Research Scientist with the New York State Health Department and began comparative studies of animals with inherited and acquired bleeding diseases. Eventually, my position culminated as Chief, Laboratory of Hematology, Wadsworth Center. In 1980, I also became Executive Director, New York State Council on Human Blood and Transfusion Services before moving to Southern California to start Hemopet, a non-profit, closed colony blood bank for dogs, greyhound rescue and veterinary specialty diagnostic program."

Here are a few snippets from one of Dr. Dodds articles: Dr. Jean Dodds' Pet Health Resource Blog | Review of Seizures/Epilepsy in Animals

Minimizing the total number of seizures and decreasing their frequency is critical, since it’s theorized that every time the brain has a seizure, it “learns” how to have the next seizure. This phenomenon is called “kindling,” and essentially it means that the more seizures a dog has, the more likely he will continue to have them. It is a vicious cycle that becomes harder to break with each episode (Canine Epilepsy Guardian Angels, 2011).
Seizures result from abnormal bursts of electrical activity in the brain. There are three main types:
Extracranial, which are caused by outside factors that affect the brain, such as a poison or low blood sugar. Diagnosis is made via blood and urine tests.
Intracranial, or structural, result when there is something wrong inside of the brain, such as a brain tumor. These are more worrisome and are diagnosed via MRI and spinal tap.
Idiopathic, which are the most common type, result from a functional problem in the brain in which the neurons over-fire, causing the brain to become excessively excitable. Idiopathic seizures typically appear in dogs between one and five years of age and most commonly affect Cocker Spaniels, Labrador Retrievers and German Shepherds, although any breed can suffer from them (Wong, 2013).

Note the list in the article: Specific causes of seizures include:


Check Thyroid Function:

Low thyroid function, known as hypothyroidism, can precipitate or aggravate existing seizure disorders. While the exact mechanism of how this works is unknown, it may relate to the important role thyroid hormones play in cellular metabolism of the central nervous system. In some cases, simply giving a hypothyroid dog the appropriate levels of thyroid medication reduces the severity and frequency of the seizures, and may even stop them altogether. If a dog has seizures, it’s important that he has a full thyroid antibody test profile run including Total T4, Free T4, Total T3, Free T3, and Canine Thyroglobulin Autoantibody (TgAA). T3 Autoantibody (T3AA) and T4 Autoantibody (T4AA) can also be added. Since many veterinarians do not fully understand how to properly test for canine thyroid dysfunction, the condition often goes undiagnosed or misdiagnosed, and the dog unfortunately suffers unnecessarily. For this reason, it’s critical to carry out the testing at a lab specializing in interpreting thyroid dysfunction in dogs, such as Hemolife’s diagnostics lab. For more information on canine thyroid disorders, the most common endocrine dysfunction in dogs, please refer to our book, The Canine Thyroid Epidemic, DogWise Publishing, 2011.



Foods that promote inflammation. Inflammation affects every organ in the body, including the brain, so it probably comes as no surprise that inflammation can cause seizures. Dogs prone to seizures should not consume any potentially inflammatory ingredients, including foods that trigger allergies or intolerances/sensitivities, such as chemical additives, wheat, corn, soy, beef or cow’s milk products—but remember that it can also include any food that causes a problem for an individual dog.

Foods that cause fluctuations in blood sugar. Sugars can disrupt the body’s equilibrium or homeostasis, possibly leading to seizures (Wilson, 2013). Avoid giving seizure-prone dogs carbohydrates with a high glycemic index (GI), including honey, sugars, white rice, wheat, corn, white potatoes, carrots, and peas.

Foods containing glutamate and aspartate. Glutamate and aspartate are two excitatory non-essential amino acids (Stafstrom, 2004; Wilson, 2013). Foods high in these amino acids include: grains, especially wheat, barley and oats; all cow’s milk products (opt instead for goat’s milk, which is much lower); beans, especially soy, pinto, lima, black, navy and lentils; nuts, especially peanuts, cashews and pistachios; seeds, including sunflower and pumpkin; any food sweetened with aspartame, such as NutraSweet and Equal; rabbit; turkey; and monosodium glutamate (MSG), a glutamine salt. MSG is used in many prepared foods and can appear on pet food labels under a number of pseudonyms, including “hydrolyzed vegetable protein”, “soy protein extract” and “textured vegetable protein” (Wilson, 2013). These foods should also be avoided in dogs with liver disease.

Rosemary and oregano. Rosemary is commonly added as an antioxidant and anti-inflammatory to commercial pet foods. While likely fine for most dogs, it is a neurotoxin that can promote seizures in vulnerable dogs. Oregano is also a powerful neurotoxin and should not be fed to epileptics.

Vitamin/mineral deficiencies and seizures.
Many vitamins and minerals are important for normal functioning of the nervous system. Deficiencies in the minerals calcium, magnesium and sodium, for example, can affect electrical activity of brain cells and result in seizures (Schachter, 2006). Calcium and magnesium, as well as zinc, are also referred to as sedative minerals because they are calming for the nervous system (Wilson, 2013). Antioxidant vitamins (A, C and E) help boost the immune system and fight inflammation. Perhaps the most important vitamins to protect against seizures are the B vitamins.

Sending prayers your way.
Moms :)
 

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It can take some trial and error to get the level of pheno at therapeutic levels in the blood. Repeated blood tests over several weeks to fine tune the dose isn't uncommon.

I hope you find the cause and it gets better!

ETA: the last time I had a foster dog with idiopathic epilepsy, the vet sent us home with a needle-less syringe of medicine to keep on hand for major "breakthrough" seizure events--to be injected rectally.
 

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A few horses I have seen at the horse barn had auto immune disease occur right after vaccines. My nephews are just over a year old - they are twins just got vaccinated with the MMr1 vaccine on the same day by the same Doctor. A few weeks later only one of the twins had to be hospitalized to a rare blood clotting disorder (bruising all over body and nose bleeds)and the neurologist said it was caused by the mmr1 vaccine. Treated with prednisone and my little nephew had no other occurrences. I myself issues with a flu vaccine many months prior which caused macro myofascifitis
which can only be diagnosed with a muscle biopsy. They found aluminum in my muscle where the flu vaccine was given. I have allergies and asthma proof of which my immune system is not up to par. This has a major role to play in how one gets affected by aluminum in the vaccines. The body is so complex. http://m.brain.oxfordjournals.org/content/124/9/1821.full
http://healthimpactnews.com/2014/a-new-autoimmunity-syndrome-linked-to-aluminum-in-vaccines/
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Macrophagic_myofasciitis
 

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Any updates?
Thanks for checking in on us.

He is still having seizures. Mostly of the petite mal / focal variety. Almost 48 hours clear from the last.

He's now on phenobarbital, potassium bromide, and metoclopramide (for nausea). He also has valium on hand incase he doesn't come out of one.

The side effects from the meds are hitting him hard. Very drowsy. Zombie dog. Zero appetite - he's lost 5lbs since this all started. Increased thirst.

Hoping that once the seizures are under control we can reduce the med dosages to maintain him to a level where he can actually function.
 

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Thanks for checking in on us.

He is still having seizures. Mostly of the petite mal / focal variety. Almost 48 hours clear from the last.

He's now on phenobarbital, potassium bromide, and metoclopramide (for nausea). He also has valium on hand incase he doesn't come out of one.

The side effects from the meds are hitting him hard. Very drowsy. Zombie dog. Zero appetite - he's lost 5lbs since this all started. Increased thirst.

Hoping that once the seizures are under control we can reduce the med dosages to maintain him to a level where he can actually function.
Hope he gets more stable and back to normal. I was so impressed with him going after that guy at 9 months old. I thought "this is how every GSD should be".
 

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Do you have any idea of epilepsy is common in his lines and could be genetic?

I'm sorry you are going through this, went through it with my heart-dog and it was devastating, but he had a fungal infection and once that crosses the blood-brain barrier, well, there isn't a whole lot of hope.

Stay strong, he is young and I hope you can figure out the correct meds dosage.
 

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just read this
sorry about your dog...
i know we had a little back and forth the other day and i hope i wasn't being insensitive
i would be extremely stressed out and worried if my dog had any serious medical issue

good luck to your dog
 
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