[Franklin829]

We have a 3 year old black GSD that we just had allergy tested after several months of trial and error with foods etc. Results have come back naming more than a few items as potential problems. A few being beef, venison, oat, corn, soybean, salmon, yeast, rice. While dealing with seasonal allergies on top of it our vet switched him to a hydrolyzed vegetarian RX food. He’s been on this for a month and doing fantastic as far as reducing/eliminating loose stool and any GI upset. Since starting the food he’s had minimal allergy related symptoms, but then again those that have stuck around are probably coming from the outdoors. He did show sign of issues with grasses, trees (maple and pine) specifically and several other outdoor allergens.

All that said, my question is with such specific diet requirements does anyone recommend or has anyone tried anything that would fit his needs? I hate to fix what’s not broken at the moment but besides the cost of the food, I’m not sure it’s an appropriate diet for him long term.


Thanks in advance.

 

[Momto2GSDs]

Hi Franklin829 and WELCOME! :greet:
Personally, I would never feed a dog Vegetarian food!

Allergy dogs are unfortunately expensive to feed because of their limitations!

Check out the ingredients in "The Honest Kitchen" products to see if one would fit.

All Ingredients are 100% Human Grade Food https://www.thehonestkitchen.com/dog-food

• Made in the USA
• No by-products
• No preservatives
• No corn, wheat, soy or GMO ingredients

All ingredients are processed in the USA in a human grade food processing facility. They are non genetically modified and free of any chemicals & preservatives. All meat is hormone and antibiotic free.

The following is their "Limited Ingredient" Turkey: https://www.thehonestkitchen.com/dehydrated-limited-ingredient-turkey-recipe-marvel

MARVEL: All ingredients dehydrated: Cage free turkey, parsnips, navy bean, organic coconut, pumpkin, parsley
minerals [tricalcium phosphate, potassium chloride, choline chloride, zinc amino acid chelate, iron amino acid chelate, potassium iodide, copper amino acid chelate, sodium selenite]
vitamins [vitamin E supplement, vitamin B12 supplement, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), vitamin D3 supplement]

A 10# box of dehydrated food re-hydrates to about 40 pounds of food BUT you feed a larger quantity of this food than kibble because it is "real food".


There is also a "Base Mix" to which you add your own raw or cooked meat:


PREFERENCE:
All ingredients dehydrated: Sweet potatoes, peas, cabbage, organic coconut, apples, bananas, spinach, pumpkin, celery, organic honey, organic kelp
minerals [tricalcium phosphate, potassium chloride, choline chloride, zinc amino acid chelate, iron amino acid chelate, potassium iodide, copper amino acid chelate, sodium selenite], taurine
vitamins [vitamin E supplement, vitamin B12 supplement, thiamine mononitrate (vitamin B1), d-calcium pantothenate (vitamin B5), riboflavin (vitamin B2), vitamin D3 supplement]


Another VERY limited ingredient food would be Ziwi Peak which is an air dried food. Looks like little squares of jerky. https://www.ziwipets.com/catalog/ziwi-peak-dog-nutrition/air-dried-dog-food

CHICKEN Only ingredients:
Chicken, Chicken Liver, Chicken Heart, New Zealand Green Mussel, Chicken Bone, Lecithin, Inulin from Chicory, Dried Kelp, Minerals (Dipotassium Phosphate, Magnesium Sulfate, Zinc Amino Acid Complex, Copper Amino Acid Complex, Iron Amino Acid Complex, Manganese Amino Acid Complex, Selenium Yeast), Salt, Parsley, Preservative (Citric Acid, Mixed Tocopherols), Vitamins (Vitamin E Supplement, Thiamine Mononitrate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Folic Acid).

• Our recipe contains over 96% meat, organs, bone, and green lipped mussels all sourced from accredited New Zealand free-range farms, fully balanced with all the necessary vitamins and minerals.
• Limited Ingredient Diet – High meat content recipe with added essential vitamins and minerals for a complete and balanced diet.
• Gentle air-drying process: naturally preserves the nutritional value of 96% Meat, Organs, Bone and New Zealand Green Mussel that go into making ZIWI Peak Air-Dried dog food.
• We use only 100% New Zealand Free Range Chicken meat and organs. All chickens are raised without added hormones, chemicals or growth promotants. The free-range chicken used in our recipe provides an excellent source of protein.

I am a raw feeder, but use these when on vacation.


Feeding a commercially prepared "Balanced Diet" raw food would be another option.



Best of luck. DEFINITELY NOT EASY OR CHEAP to feed allergy dogs!

Moms

 

[Jax08]

Are you positive this is a vegetarian food???
"hydrolyzed vegetarian RX food"

If so, I would find another prescription, hydrolyzed, food that is not vegetarian without the ingredients he is allergic too. Hydrolyzed is literally the proteins broken down to the point where the dog's body does not have to work to process it. You need to stick with what works right now or you'll send his whole system into an uproar.

I would keep him on that food until I get the seasonal allergies under control. If it's itching then try Cytopoint. Once you have those symptoms contained, then you can start adding in foods not on the allergy list until you find ones he can tolerate. You can also look for a certified nutritionist to help you develop a diet. I know Cornell University has a division, there is also one in Texas. I absolutely do NOT recommend Monica Segal in Canada after my friends experience with her.

 

[Franklin829]

Thanks for the info everyone. I’ll check into the brands mentioned if I haven’t already explored them. I appreciate it.

I am sure it’s a hydrolyzed vegetarian RX-hence my hesitation keeping him in it. We’ve tried raw (Answers Brand) and he wasn’t interested no matter what we did. We did take the bowl away and skip that meal etc, he still wanted nothing to do with it.

He’s currently receiving cytopoint shots as needed, he just had his second one this season. They don’t seem to last as long as most people claim (for us at least). He seems to need one every 5 weeks or so.

The hydrolyzed food is offered in a chicken flavor, but if this doesn’t have to be a long term thing I’d rather not invest in another bag of it regardless of the flavor. They started him on the vegetarian because his symptoms were severe and we couldn’t pin point anything since everything seemed to be causing an issue at the time. After the fact now that things have calmed down it seems it was a mix of food and environmental all going crazy at once making it extremely difficult to pin point. I do feel we’re making progress now, slowly but it’s still progress.

On top of his list of other issues fish specially salmon is an issue for him as well as any fish oils or misc. fish products in foods. There’s fish in so many things!

It’s for sure a costly venture trying to find what works, but he’s worth it. Just figured I’d throw it out there and see if anyone has come across a food we haven’t found or looked into.

 

[Magwart]

You mention the cost of the current food, so I'm guessing you are hoping to find something less expensive than RX food along with adding some animal protein to his diet? If I'm understanding you correctly, then I'd point you to Diamond Care.

Diamond now offers an OTC hydrolyzed protein food made from salmon (they acquired Precise Pet Food in order to bring it to market under their label). Here it is:
https://www.diamondpet.com/dog/diamond-care/sensitive-skin/

It sells at a lower price-point than the vet RX foods (it costs about $53 for 25 pounds vs. $95 for the same size of Royal Canin's HP vet RX food on Chewy.com). It's hydrolyzed so he might be able to handle it.


They also have an egg-and-potato based "sensitive stomach" food in the same line.


Since yours is doing well on HP food, I would hesitate to switch to non-hydrolyzed food labeled as "limited ingredient" by any kibble maker because nearly all the "limited ingredient" foods are tainted to some extent by running through the same extrusion equipment as the other foods, so they pick up some residue of other ingredients not on the label as they pass through. For some dogs, the amounts are so low that they don't trigger the allergy. For others, they might.

If you want to look at limited ingredient kibble, hoping the contamination is too small to trigger your dog, RAWZ is worth looking at for their duck-based L-I food -- great little company run by people with a very good reputation in the industry, but it's a pricey food (priced about like Orijen, and not sold online--only through mom-and-pop independent stores):
http://rawznaturalpetfood.com/dog/limited-recipe/real-duck-recipe/


Otherwise, just throw in the towel with kibble. My food allergy dog gets The Honest Kitchen Preference (grain-free) base mix plus raw or cooked meat. If yours doesn't like raw meat, just cook it for him to feed with a base mix. Depending on the protein and size of the dog, it's probably going to cost $100-200/mo.

 

[Franklin829]

You mention the cost of the current food, so I'm guessing you are hoping to find something less expensive than RX food along with adding some animal protein to his diet? If I'm understanding you correctly, then I'd point you to Diamond Care.


Diamond now offers an OTC hydrolyzed protein food made from salmon (they acquired Precise Pet Food in order to bring it to market under their label). Here it is:

https://www.diamondpet.com/dog/diamond-care/sensitive-skin/

It sells at a lower price-point than the vet RX foods (it costs about $53 for 25 pounds vs. $95 for the same size of Royal Canin's HP vet RX food on Chewy.com).



Since yours is doing well on HP food, I would hesitate to switch to non-hydrolyzed food labeled as "limited ingredient" by any kibble maker because nearly all the "limited ingredient" foods are tainted to some extent by running through the same extrusion equipment as the other foods, so they pick up some residue of other ingredients not on the label as they pass through. For some dogs, the amounts are so low that they don't trigger the allergy. For others, they might.







To get cost under control, you might try Diamond

Thanks, I’ll check into Diamond. The cost isn’t really the problem as much as the ingredients. I’m more than willing to pay for quality food, I just don’t feel this is it. Although he is doing great on it, I just don’t feel feel good about it. I’m hesitant to change anything right now, but I do want to be prepared for when we do.

 

[Jax08]

What proteins can he have?

 

[Franklin829]

What proteins can he have?

So far anything except beef, any fish-specifically salmon, and venison.

 

[JonRob]

our vet switched him to a hydrolyzed vegetarian RX food. He’s been on this for a month and doing fantastic as far as reducing/eliminating loose stool and any GI upset. Since starting the food he’s had minimal allergy related symptoms

Why would you even consider switching him from a food that he is doing fantastic on? You and your dog are so lucky that you have found something that works so well for him. That is the only thing that counts with a dog food--how your own dog is doing on it. And never mind if the food is politically incorrect.

Your vet may not told you just how dangerous allergy-related and/or inflammatory GI disease is in dogs. I have lost more than a few dogs to this over the years. The dog begins starving to death because he can't digest his food, the disease becomes horribly painful, or the disease starts to corrode other organs--and no treatments help the dog anymore.

If you switch your dog to another food, his GI disease may spiral out of control, and the food that worked before may no longer work.

Here's some useful info about hydrolyzed protein dog foods:

http://www.petmd.com/dog/what-hydrolyzed-protein-dog-food

BTW, if your dog has not been tested for pancreatic insufficiency, he should be.

 

[Jax08]

So far anything except beef, any fish-specifically salmon, and venison.

Now that you have that information, why not talk to your vet about switching to a hydrolyzed food with an animal protein? RC makes one with kangaroo. I'm sure you can find them with poultry. Try one of those and talk to your vet about trying new foods after you have all the allergies under control. You can't start changing things with allergies. It has to be slow and one at a time. if you change to many things at once, you don't know what went wrong and it will take time to settle his GI system back down to even restart.

Because he seems to have fairly severe allergies, I would not go to a limited ingredient off the shelf food. They may have only one protein but they have so many other ingredients that could cause issues. For instance, my dog is allergic to white potatoes and green beans. Those two ingredients are in so many foods!

 

[Franklin829]

So far anything except beef, any fish-specifically salmon, and venison.

Now that you have that information, why not talk to your vet about switching to a hydrolyzed food with an animal protein? RC makes one with kangaroo. I'm sure you can find them with poultry. Try one of those and talk to your vet about trying new foods after you have all the allergies under control. You can't start changing things with allergies. It has to be slow and one at a time. if you change to many things at once, you don't know what went wrong and it will take time to settle his GI system back down to even restart.

Because he seems to have fairly severe allergies, I would not go to a limited ingredient off the shelf food. They may have only one protein but they have so many other ingredients that could cause issues. For instance, my dog is allergic to white potatoes and green beans. Those two ingredients are in so many foods!

That’s where we’re at with this, weeding out the LI foods with misc ingredients that he can’t tolerate. This isn’t our first go round with a dog with allergies, but it is a first trying to find a food with as many restrictions as he has. We have a 10 year old shar pei rescue with severe allergies, but thankfully we’ve got her figured out. He’s been a little trickier and has a super sensitive stomach.

Our vet has been very gracious and patient, but like most pushes the name brand RX foods and medications. We’d like to get him to a place of maintenance without overloading him with prescriptions and over priced low quality food. It’s just going to take time.

 

[Jax08]

It sure does. Allergies are terrible to deal with. I would go back to my original suggestion then, keep him on this food and talk to a certified nutritionist. I would look for one with an actual degree in animal science, not just a certificate from a short course.

 

[Franklin829]

It sure does. Allergies are terrible to deal with. I would go back to my original suggestion then, keep him on this food and talk to a certified nutritionist. I would look for one with an actual degree in animal science, not just a certificate from a short course.

Thank you, it’s for sure been tricky. I’ll take a look into a nutritionist for sure. I appreciate your suggestions 👍🏻

 

[Magwart]

You might also look into BalanceIt.com -- it's associated with the UC Davis Vet School and operated by a DVM/PhD nutritionist. They'll formulate custom recipes in consultation with your vet for allergy dogs -- basically, it's a home-cooking alternative to RX food, but they require a vet referral and your patient history.

 

[Franklin829]

You might also look into BalanceIt.com -- it's associated with the UC Davis Vet School and operated by a DVM/PhD nutritionist. They'll formulate custom recipes in consultation with your vet for allergy dogs -- basically, it's a home-cooking alternative to RX food, but they require a vet referral and your patient history.

Oh wow, that sounds really interesting! Thanks.