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German Shepherd VS Shiloh Shepherd

47K views 62 replies 30 participants last post by  kiya 
#1 ·
Honestly, what is the difference?? I love GSDs, I would never have another breed, but the Shiloh Shepherd, to me, looks like those big boned German line GSDs......I don't see a difference. So can anyone tell me whats the deal on that?
 
#2 ·
The Shiloh Shepherd is not a German Shepherd. The 'creators' bred in large breeds to build size.

The German line GSDs are not 'big boned' in that they don't weigh 120 lbs. They are bred to the GSD standard.

That's just one difference.
 
#3 ·
I have both and there are more differences than similarities. They are very different breeds in structure, size and most notably, temperament. It's like comparing apples and oranges.
 
#4 ·
I did a lot of internet reading after posting, very confusing, seems they say GSD is the main genetic pool, but theres a lot of "other" in there, wolf, and some breeds I never heard of. Might be fiction, but also scared me off. i still so prefer the GSD, it was just how they look so much "like" a GSD, that I thought I was on a GSD site till I came across an odd coat color and started reading instead of just looking.....
 
#5 ·
They are completely a different breed. Many Shiloh sites seem to do a write up about how they are going back to the 'old line larger GSD's' when that's a breed that NEVER existed.

If you want to look at the 'old line GSD' they may not look like current GSD's either, but they are even more different than a Shiloh. (from this site.. )

Horand (1890 ?) First GSD


Beowulf (1895 ?)


Klodo (1925)


This site is neat, has the winners in the USA from back to 1918
http://gsdca.org/GSDReviewed/GrandVictors.html

1926 GV Donar Overstolzen


1941 & 1944 GV Ch. Nox of Ruthland ROM


NONE of these dogs were even over 100 pounds...
 
#6 ·
The whole "old German lines, traditional, large-boned, large" (etc.etc.) GSDs touted by so many breeders are one of my favorite German Shepherd myths. There never was and there is not now any type of "traditional large" German Shepherd Dog. The breed has always been a medium-sized herding breed in Germany - if anything, "old" style German Shepherds were smaller than Shepherds bred to the standard now.

For some reason, loads of people seem to think that German Shepherds used to be larger. To such an extent that I hardly can take my to-the-standard female, who is just under 24" at the withers anywhere without hearing, "What's she mixed with? She's so small."
 
#7 ·
Originally Posted By: HistorianTo such an extent that I hardly can take my to-the-standard female, who is just under 24" at the withers anywhere without hearing, "What's she mixed with? She's so small."
Ugh I have the same problem. Tessa is 24" and I get it constantly, plus she's sable so that doubles the comments because no one recognizes it.
 
#8 ·
A huge male GSD, very old and gray muzzled probably hard of hearing and he wasn't fat just big 120# ish was in the middle of the road I was drivin on today(lake area and 25 mph) so he probably wanders. He was very handsome! I love the big GSD's and the Shilohs, with the straight back, unlike many opinions. Different strokes...Onyx looks like the dog in the 2nd to last pic(1926) as far as her structure goes.
 
#10 ·
I use to talk to a women who bred shilohs. From talking to her, and her group and what they wanted, they DO NOT want to be compared to GSDs.

It was years ago when we talked but then, there was a real big split. Some considered them larger GSDs and wanted to breed to them, but some clubs and breeders didnt want that and well, want them to be their own breed with their own purpose. I'll give it to them, the people I talked to actually had a purpose and goal in mind unlike the snoodles and poo dogs that you see being bred for money.

There are some who say that shilohs dont have any wolf in them and the major cross was originally GSDs and Malamute and/or other northern breeds, but, I am not 100% certain.

They are very different in all ways from looks to temerpent. I myself wouldnt mind having one, but they are in no way GSDs.
 
#29 ·
I use to talk to a women who bred shilohs. From talking to her, and her group and what they wanted, they DO NOT want to be compared to GSDs.

It was years ago when we talked but then, there was a real big split. Some considered them larger GSDs and wanted to breed to them, but some clubs and breeders didnt want that and well, want them to be their own breed with their own purpose. I'll give it to them, the people I talked to actually had a purpose and goal in mind unlike the snoodles and poo dogs that you see being bred for money.

There are some who say that shilohs dont have any wolf in them and the major cross was originally GSDs and Malamute and/or other northern breeds, but, I am not 100% certain.

They are very different in all ways from looks to temerpent. I myself wouldnt mind having one, but they are in no way GSDs.
There's no wolf in the Shiloh Shepherd. Malamutes are known for better hips, bigger size, and the most marked difference from GSD's-a very soft temperament. Malamutes are famous for being babysitters of children in the north, they are sweet, compliant and not as business minded as GSDs.

My Shiloh, Missy, is like a hippie dog when it comes to children and the elderly-"It's all good, man, whatever". She's extraordinarily stable and predictable in her reactions to things-absolutely bulletproof. Kids can do anything to her and she wriggles like a puppy.

If there was wolf in the breed, they would be more of a hard, and dominant dog, which the Shilohs can never be accused of. I'm sure, like all breeds, there are dominant specimens, but as a general rule, this is not a dog that will test your leadership.

However, they will protect what is theirs with every inch of their 100 pound fluffy bodies-Missy proved that this weekend when some drunk men came staggering out of the woods into our campsite, where my children were eating dinner. She stood growling at them, and once they came completely out of the woods, (I would have one around had I seen a large angry dog waiting for me) she barked, and they kept walking through...she grabbed one guys shirt and shook him like a doll. He screamed and ran, his friend fell over my cockerpoo, and scrambled out of the site doing a Marine crawl.

Had she had wolf in her, he'd be counting stitches, and I'd be in big trouble. My husband has always doubted she would step up when necessary, now he's darned impressed at her protectiveness, and her control over her reaction.
 
#11 ·
There is one in my training club, she is smaller than Onyx and very sweet, silver sable with a dark face. She is quite a handful, won't do the downstays for her handler(4 weeks in), but is very happy and bouncy. I think she is at least over 1 1/2, but still acts puppyish. I would take her in a nanosecond!
 
#14 ·
Originally Posted By: HistorianThere never was and there is not now any type of "traditional large" German Shepherd Dog. The breed has always been a medium-sized herding breed in Germany
We recently had a 110lb GSD, Jake, at the shelter. He was huge! My two streudelheads are huge too, but not that huge. So are they mistakes?

Oh and Strongheart's weight varied between 100 and 125lbs and that was in the 1920s? Maybe he started the 'tradition'?
 
G
#15 ·
Well I can speak on the "old-line larger GSD" issue. I believe that by "old-line" they are talking about nothing further back than about 50 - 60 years at most. My father was a GSD breeder from 1948 until 1984. In that time it was a purely American breeder goal for larger dogs and many did indeed get big but usually no bigger than about 125 llbs at most. Around the late 1970s and early '80s breeders came to think of this as an incorrect path for the breed. Many health related issues were showing up more and more and this is the timeframe when hip dysplasia became so prevalent that bad hips also became associated with the breed as did the larger size. The return 30 years ago to the original build was correct but is still so recent in the public consciousness that many still think of the dogs as they were all those years ago as being the standard when we who are dedicated to the breed know different. The large size gene is still there though and does crop up from time to time as it did in my dogs Max and Odin. Responsible owners and breeders do not allow such dogs to mate and so carry on the goal of returning the breed to the size it exists best as.
 
#17 ·
If a breeder is breeding to standard they will still get 100lb+ males, they're not mistakes... just big. A lot of the weight assumptions people have are WAY off. Many dogs people think are 100 pounds are really 80 pounds. My Diesel only weights 75 pounds, but does not look anywhere near that light. He has a huge chest, head, paws and thighs - but nothing in the middle!
 
#18 ·
Quote:We recently had a 110lb GSD, Jake, at the shelter. He was huge! My two streudelheads are huge too, but not that huge. So are they mistakes?

Oh and Strongheart's weight varied between 100 and 125lbs and that was in the 1920s? Maybe he started the 'tradition'?
What I was saying in my post above is that the breeders who are purposely breeding German Shepherds to be WAY over the standard in terms of both height and weight are breeders that continually use the terms "traditional", "old country", "old German style", etc. to make their buyers believe that this is what the breed used to be or what the breed should be.

However, if you look back at the breed's history - at dogs in the Sieger shows going back to the turn of the Century - you will see what the breed used to be and should be in terms of size. They are supposed to be an agile, medium-sized herding breed. They are not supposed to be huge lunking behemoths the size of large Malamutes or Great Danes.

Incidentally, I was talking about the height of these dogs, not their build or weight. However, a lot of those breeders who breed for size advertise their dogs by weight - usually very overweight dogs, too. I believe we had that discussion in one of the breeding sections not too long ago, where a breeder had dogs on their website and was touting how large (in terms of weight) they were by what age - you could see neck rolls on these dogs. They looked horrible.

There are plenty of breeders out there who breed oversized (in terms of height) because there is a market of people who think that German Shepherds should be HUGE, rather than a medium-sized breeds, and the fact that they advertise them as "old fashioned", or any of the other buzzwords they like to use, is just sad. If you're breeding oversized, just say you're breeding oversized. Don't claim you're breeding "what the breed used to be like", because it was never intended to be that big.
 
#19 ·
If you want to do some research. This is probably a good site to go on. http://www.shilohshepherds.org/

GSDolch has most of the info right. and no Shilohs have NO wolf in them. If they've got wolf blood, they're not Shilohs
 
#20 ·
Quote: My father was a GSD breeder from 1948 until 1984. In that time it was a purely American breeder goal for larger dogs and many did indeed get big but usually no bigger than about 125 llbs at most.
GSDad, do you have any links that show the written standard for the GSD's during those years? Be neat to look at the differences from the beginning of the breed (when the dogs were only medium sized) then when you are talking about (when the standard must have changed to get them to be large dogs) and then back to the current standard of med dogs.

And I'm guessing it's for the American Showline GSD? Though not sure if the standard changed over more of the world at that time or not.
 
#21 ·
Originally Posted By: MaggieRoseLee
GSDad, do you have any links that show the written standard for the GSD's during those years? Be neat to look at the differences from the beginning of the breed (when the dogs were only medium sized) then when you are talking about (when the standard must have changed to get them to be large dogs) and then back to the current standard of med dogs.
I don't think the written standard changed, there was just a trend where people ignored it.
 
G
#22 ·
Originally Posted By: MaggieRoseLee
Quote: My father was a GSD breeder from 1948 until 1984. In that time it was a purely American breeder goal for larger dogs and many did indeed get big but usually no bigger than about 125 llbs at most.
GSDad, do you have any links that show the written standard for the GSD's during those years? Be neat to look at the differences from the beginning of the breed (when the dogs were only medium sized) then when you are talking about (when the standard must have changed to get them to be large dogs) and then back to the current standard of med dogs.

And I'm guessing it's for the American Showline GSD? Though not sure if the standard changed over more of the world at that time or not.
My sister has all my father's papers as she is our mother's power of attorney and executor. I will ask her to look through them to see but It'll probably have to wait until I visit her again in a month or so.

In my memory of these years it was not something that as postulated above was ignored, but was a real goal for a large portion of the breed. I remember my father being very active in this and he brought dogs in from more than a few states to accomplish his goals with his line. I remember trips with him to New York, Massachusetts, Maine, Ohio, and Virginia to get a dog to add to the line. I know there were more besides. All these dogs had papers. I've searched on this page for the pedigree: http://www.pedigreedatabase.com/gsd/search.html However, only one dog comes up and is not a relation. Odd though because I'm holding Odin's papers in my hand and his doesn't come up either. I have Frigga's papers. She's from a completely different line and her listing isn't coming up so I don't know how worthwhile these internet listings are.

I will see what I can find though from my father's papers and get back to you on this. If nothing else it may be of interest to see a history of the line for that era. I think you may be right, Maggie, that this was a showline concept then. Remember, this was the era of "Rusty", "King", and "Flame" who were GSDs in the movies of the '40s and '50s and into the '60s. All of them were large dogs.
 
#23 ·
This is not a very sophisticated or learned reply.... but just a thought.
When I was little (61 yrs ago), everything looked bigger, and in trying to recapture things of childhood, it's shocking how perspective changes in the light of reality!
I always admired the German Shepherd breed because of it's noble and strong appearance.
Having had three of them, (one at at a time through their lifetimes), has been an education in the scope of variety of body type, personality, and intangible qualities that only an owner would know.
My present dog was the only one bought from a breeder.
At the time I got her, I was determined to connect with the heart of the breed.
I loved my other shepherds but I knew there was something more to experience and drove my family nuts in the quest.
We tramped all over New Jersey and they thought I was too picky- "We are not going home without a dog this time!".
We were hurting from the passing of #2 girl and they were impatient to fill the void of her presence.
They wanted a dog NOW but I didn't want to settle.
I had done my homework and I knew what I wanted in general terms.
When I stepped into the breeder's office,I knew instantly I was in the right place from his pictures on the wall.
Today my understanding is light years beyond my early years, and I still have miles to go.
I love to come to this forum and learn more.
After having a GSD as close to the standard as I could afford, I have to say that it was worth it to seek out the right one.
Naomi is all I had dreamed and more- the standard is the guardian of all that made her what she is and why she is.
I now appreciate those who are diligent to research their breedings and stay close to the Standard- Carry on!
 
#24 ·
I was wondering about the differences of the life expectancies of
GSD & a Shiloh?
But, on the other hand, I really love Betty's (wicked1996) Bismark!
He is a BIG cuddlie bear of a GSD!
 
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