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Honestly, what is the difference?? I love GSDs, I would never have another breed, but the Shiloh Shepherd, to me, looks like those big boned German line GSDs......I don't see a difference. So can anyone tell me whats the deal on that?
 

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The Shiloh Shepherd is not a German Shepherd. The 'creators' bred in large breeds to build size.

The German line GSDs are not 'big boned' in that they don't weigh 120 lbs. They are bred to the GSD standard.

That's just one difference.
 

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I have both and there are more differences than similarities. They are very different breeds in structure, size and most notably, temperament. It's like comparing apples and oranges.
 

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I did a lot of internet reading after posting, very confusing, seems they say GSD is the main genetic pool, but theres a lot of "other" in there, wolf, and some breeds I never heard of. Might be fiction, but also scared me off. i still so prefer the GSD, it was just how they look so much "like" a GSD, that I thought I was on a GSD site till I came across an odd coat color and started reading instead of just looking.....
 

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They are completely a different breed. Many Shiloh sites seem to do a write up about how they are going back to the 'old line larger GSD's' when that's a breed that NEVER existed.

If you want to look at the 'old line GSD' they may not look like current GSD's either, but they are even more different than a Shiloh. (from this site.. )

Horand (1890 ?) First GSD


Beowulf (1895 ?)


Klodo (1925)


This site is neat, has the winners in the USA from back to 1918
http://gsdca.org/GSDReviewed/GrandVictors.html

1926 GV Donar Overstolzen


1941 & 1944 GV Ch. Nox of Ruthland ROM


NONE of these dogs were even over 100 pounds...
 

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The whole "old German lines, traditional, large-boned, large" (etc.etc.) GSDs touted by so many breeders are one of my favorite German Shepherd myths. There never was and there is not now any type of "traditional large" German Shepherd Dog. The breed has always been a medium-sized herding breed in Germany - if anything, "old" style German Shepherds were smaller than Shepherds bred to the standard now.

For some reason, loads of people seem to think that German Shepherds used to be larger. To such an extent that I hardly can take my to-the-standard female, who is just under 24" at the withers anywhere without hearing, "What's she mixed with? She's so small."
 

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Originally Posted By: HistorianTo such an extent that I hardly can take my to-the-standard female, who is just under 24" at the withers anywhere without hearing, "What's she mixed with? She's so small."
Ugh I have the same problem. Tessa is 24" and I get it constantly, plus she's sable so that doubles the comments because no one recognizes it.
 

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A huge male GSD, very old and gray muzzled probably hard of hearing and he wasn't fat just big 120# ish was in the middle of the road I was drivin on today(lake area and 25 mph) so he probably wanders. He was very handsome! I love the big GSD's and the Shilohs, with the straight back, unlike many opinions. Different strokes...Onyx looks like the dog in the 2nd to last pic(1926) as far as her structure goes.
 

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I have met only a couple of Shilohs and I loved both of them! They were large, incredibly beautiful and seemed to have the most interesting personalities! I too like the larger GSD's but I like the standard too. As long as they are healthy.....

Joanna
 

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I use to talk to a women who bred shilohs. From talking to her, and her group and what they wanted, they DO NOT want to be compared to GSDs.

It was years ago when we talked but then, there was a real big split. Some considered them larger GSDs and wanted to breed to them, but some clubs and breeders didnt want that and well, want them to be their own breed with their own purpose. I'll give it to them, the people I talked to actually had a purpose and goal in mind unlike the snoodles and poo dogs that you see being bred for money.

There are some who say that shilohs dont have any wolf in them and the major cross was originally GSDs and Malamute and/or other northern breeds, but, I am not 100% certain.

They are very different in all ways from looks to temerpent. I myself wouldnt mind having one, but they are in no way GSDs.
 

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There is one in my training club, she is smaller than Onyx and very sweet, silver sable with a dark face. She is quite a handful, won't do the downstays for her handler(4 weeks in), but is very happy and bouncy. I think she is at least over 1 1/2, but still acts puppyish. I would take her in a nanosecond!
 

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Originally Posted By: HistorianThere never was and there is not now any type of "traditional large" German Shepherd Dog. The breed has always been a medium-sized herding breed in Germany
We recently had a 110lb GSD, Jake, at the shelter. He was huge! My two streudelheads are huge too, but not that huge. So are they mistakes?

Oh and Strongheart's weight varied between 100 and 125lbs and that was in the 1920s? Maybe he started the 'tradition'?
 
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Well I can speak on the "old-line larger GSD" issue. I believe that by "old-line" they are talking about nothing further back than about 50 - 60 years at most. My father was a GSD breeder from 1948 until 1984. In that time it was a purely American breeder goal for larger dogs and many did indeed get big but usually no bigger than about 125 llbs at most. Around the late 1970s and early '80s breeders came to think of this as an incorrect path for the breed. Many health related issues were showing up more and more and this is the timeframe when hip dysplasia became so prevalent that bad hips also became associated with the breed as did the larger size. The return 30 years ago to the original build was correct but is still so recent in the public consciousness that many still think of the dogs as they were all those years ago as being the standard when we who are dedicated to the breed know different. The large size gene is still there though and does crop up from time to time as it did in my dogs Max and Odin. Responsible owners and breeders do not allow such dogs to mate and so carry on the goal of returning the breed to the size it exists best as.
 

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Originally Posted By: Strongheart
We recently had a 110lb GSD, Jake, at the shelter. He was huge! My two streudelheads are huge too, but not that huge. So are they mistakes?
Not necessarily mistakes, but definately outside the standard.
 

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If a breeder is breeding to standard they will still get 100lb+ males, they're not mistakes... just big. A lot of the weight assumptions people have are WAY off. Many dogs people think are 100 pounds are really 80 pounds. My Diesel only weights 75 pounds, but does not look anywhere near that light. He has a huge chest, head, paws and thighs - but nothing in the middle!
 

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Quote:We recently had a 110lb GSD, Jake, at the shelter. He was huge! My two streudelheads are huge too, but not that huge. So are they mistakes?

Oh and Strongheart's weight varied between 100 and 125lbs and that was in the 1920s? Maybe he started the 'tradition'?
What I was saying in my post above is that the breeders who are purposely breeding German Shepherds to be WAY over the standard in terms of both height and weight are breeders that continually use the terms "traditional", "old country", "old German style", etc. to make their buyers believe that this is what the breed used to be or what the breed should be.

However, if you look back at the breed's history - at dogs in the Sieger shows going back to the turn of the Century - you will see what the breed used to be and should be in terms of size. They are supposed to be an agile, medium-sized herding breed. They are not supposed to be huge lunking behemoths the size of large Malamutes or Great Danes.

Incidentally, I was talking about the height of these dogs, not their build or weight. However, a lot of those breeders who breed for size advertise their dogs by weight - usually very overweight dogs, too. I believe we had that discussion in one of the breeding sections not too long ago, where a breeder had dogs on their website and was touting how large (in terms of weight) they were by what age - you could see neck rolls on these dogs. They looked horrible.

There are plenty of breeders out there who breed oversized (in terms of height) because there is a market of people who think that German Shepherds should be HUGE, rather than a medium-sized breeds, and the fact that they advertise them as "old fashioned", or any of the other buzzwords they like to use, is just sad. If you're breeding oversized, just say you're breeding oversized. Don't claim you're breeding "what the breed used to be like", because it was never intended to be that big.
 

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If you want to do some research. This is probably a good site to go on. http://www.shilohshepherds.org/

GSDolch has most of the info right. and no Shilohs have NO wolf in them. If they've got wolf blood, they're not Shilohs
 

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Quote: My father was a GSD breeder from 1948 until 1984. In that time it was a purely American breeder goal for larger dogs and many did indeed get big but usually no bigger than about 125 llbs at most.
GSDad, do you have any links that show the written standard for the GSD's during those years? Be neat to look at the differences from the beginning of the breed (when the dogs were only medium sized) then when you are talking about (when the standard must have changed to get them to be large dogs) and then back to the current standard of med dogs.

And I'm guessing it's for the American Showline GSD? Though not sure if the standard changed over more of the world at that time or not.
 
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