[selzer]

And some of the current thought is that neutering INCREASES the chances of prostate cancer instead of the other way around.

My problem is not with spaying or neutering, as I said, that is the owner's choice GSDELsa.

GSDElsa, it is not ok for me to lecture on one of the subjects I am most concerned with, but it is ok for you to lecture me. OK. Guess I understand THAT rule now.


What my problem with is the "thank goodness!" What is expected once this awesome surgery is performed? Is superstar obedience champion dog going to suddenly turn up in the skin of your former intact dog?

If you cannot contain an intact dog, you should not own a dog. Do you really believe that sex drive is stronger than prey drive? I suppose it can be in some animals. But if there is a possibility of your dog getting loose, fix the possibility, make your dog safer, don't fix the dog. Because spayed and neutered dogs can be killed by farmers, or run over by cars as readily as their intact cousins.

 

[GSDElsa]

My problem is not with spaying or neutering, as I said, that is the owner's choice GSDELsa.

GSDElsa, it is not ok for me to lecture on one of the subjects I am most concerned with, but it is ok for you to lecture me. OK. Guess I understand THAT rule now.

No, it's not a rule. But you're always ranting and raving when people try to go pro-speuter on you...so I guess I don't understand why you would turn around and do the same thing to someone else?

You can certainly do it...I just see it as a tit for tat type of thing.

 

[selzer]

Why spay and nueter? I dont know what kind of cancer spaying causes, but Not spaying can increase the chance of breast cancer, for one. Also, accidents can happen. My female GSD is pregnant because my husband let our boy in to play with her, not realizing she was in heat till it was too late. I am Not a back yard breeder, my dogs, though purebred, are unproven, and I was not intending to breed them. Also, how many get put down at shelters? if the parents had had something removed, these dogs wouldnt be there. I work at a shelter, and there are plenty of purebred unwanted dogs there. All 3 of my GSDs are rescues.

Yes, if you subject your bitch to an increased risk of osteosarcoma, and hemangiosarcoma, and other issues, you can pretty much eliminate the possibility of breast cancer.

Mammary cancer seems to usually hit bitches at ten years old and older. I am sure there are probably cases of younger dogs getting it, but it seems like it is more of an elder dog problem. I will risk that. Bone cancer and hemangiosarcoma, both having terrible prognosis, often hit dogs at four or five years of age, maybe even younger.

Dogs seem to live longer intact.

No I will not alter the dogs that I have that I never intend to breed. No way. I care about them too. If I believe that spay/neuter has negative health consequences, why would I do it to any of my dogs.

 

[Lesley1905]

I'm going to nueter Brody, but I will do it when he is around 2.

 

[selzer]

No, it's not a rule. But you're always ranting and raving when people try to go pro-speuter on you...so I guess I don't understand why you would turn around and do the same thing to someone else?

You can certainly do it...I just see it as a tit for tat type of thing.

So its your job to keep my ranting and raving to a minimum.

I BELIEVE that vets and HSUS are giving only half of the story when it comes to spay/neuter. They do not bother to tell of the risks, they blow them off. They even LIE and tell you the opposite. People believe them.

I believe this is a terrible injustice. People should be aware that there are other studies that tell a different story. When people say something like it decreases the risk of prostate cancer, or the dog will suffer if it is not neutered, I don't like to let that stuff go by.

Too many pups are neutered in the teenager stage. If people just wait a bit, those dogs will come back to their senses with or without their reproductive organs. But if people DO neuter them, then when the behavior improves they blame the neuter.

Why "thank-goodness!"? What will it DO for the dog, really?

 

[selzer]

No, it's not a rule. But you're always ranting and raving when people try to go pro-speuter on you...so I guess I don't understand why you would turn around and do the same thing to someone else?

You can certainly do it...I just see it as a tit for tat type of thing.

Could you please explain this a little better.

When people ask about spay-neuter, I usually do say I am against it and give reasons.

When people down in the breeding section are being battered about thinking about breeding and everyone says spay spay spay. I might say that spaying isn't the answer, becoming educated is.

I do not understand what you mean about "so I guess I don't understand why you would turn around and do the same thing to someone else"

Could you say that a different way so I can figure out what your are trying to say?

 

[Konotashi]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but isn't HSUS up there with PETA?

 

[JeanKBBMMMAAN]

This is a picture thread. It was anyway. Even if it was in bloodlines or general info, this is just going to go around and around. Go find one of the eleven billionty other speuter threads to talk on or start a new one. ETA - forgot to say please and thank you.

Beautiful black GSD. Hopefully is a healthy well tempered dog! Genetics is about 80-20 so use your 20 as you best see fit.

 

[sitstay]

I LOVE his head. I'll look for your post with the pedigree information. Huge kudos for getting your pup altered.
Sheilah (I AM a spayed bitch)

 

[onyx'girl]

I think he looks like he has some DDR blood in him. I love his head, too!
Can't believe how this thread got hi-jacked!!

 

[Chris Wild]

Geeze.. how does a simple question about possible bloodlines turn into a major lecture on spaying/neutering? Talk about running off topic at the first opportunity in favor of pushing one's personal agenda ....

Anyway, to the *original* question..... , the overall appearance of the dog to me indicates working lines. Based on overall structure, body type and head shape I'd expect a goodly percentage of DDR or Czech lines in there.

 

[Jessiewessie99]

There are idiot owners of both altered and intact dogs. If you fail at both, then you shouldn't have a dog.

Back on topic-I can't wait to find out what your pup's lineage is!

 

[ChristenHolden]

W0W W0W AND W0W. I would love to have a solid black male that looked that handsome :wub:

 

[Heagler870]

Yeah this thread did take a turn off subject. Apparently some delve too deeply into my simple statement of "Thank Goodness" that can be taken in more than ONE context. Oh well, Thanks for all the answers though.

 

[silvertongued17]

I must say this neuter discussion is mighty hilarious. Large breeds, small too, like the GSDs should not be neutered before absolute maturity unless absolutely necessary for medical reasons. Early neutering has a detrimental effect on the health of the dog and it makes perfect biological sense. Testosterone, in males, is required for muscle tone and closing of the growth plates as well as many other important functions. Neutered shepherds can be spotted a mile away, with a tall gaunt form, and are at a higher risk for every type of cancer (except testicular since neutered males don't have testicles). Hip dysplasia would seem like a easy sell if your growth plates take longer to close causing your hip angles to be off. Yes the dogs may require an in tune owner to make sure the pack dominance is maintained , but after the initial NILIF demo your dog will happily take to his place in the pack. He, being the subordinate, does not get to mate with anything and marking the alphas territory would be an extremely bad idea for him. Vets rarely have any usable knowledge when it comes to neutering or even nutrition, still pushing science diet, when everyone knows raw is where true owners reside. And yea, actual studies prove my ideas. http://www.naiaonline.org/pdfs/LongTermHealthEffectsOfSpayNeuterInDogs.pdf *Rant over*

 

[onyx'girl]

Welcome silvertongued17, what lines do you think the dog in this thread is from??
I agree with your post, btw...

 

[Jessiewessie99]

Well if someone wants until the dog is of maturity to neuter/spay then fine. I think most can agree on that.

I really love the OP's dog head though.

 

[silvertongued17]

Haha sorry I almost forgot about the OP's question. Sorry when I get side tracked it takes over. I would also have to agree with the working bloodlines, and mix. Czech is a good guess, but it seems as if the lines are too straight. It's as if the dog was bred in a rectangular box. Given the angles of the back and head shape the pup would seem to be a mix. Without anymore information it would be hard to speculate, but I must admit I like his appearance. He won't show, but that's fine because show GSDs are bastards of their breed.

 

[Lilie]

After everything I did register him last night. Solely for the purpose of seeing his background. I want to see what his lines are.

Wonderful!

 

[EchoGSD]

The picture shows a healthy, well cared for boy. Handsome, too! Hope your dog is healthy as well. I agree with those who spay/neuter unless they are breeding to improve the breed, and knowledgable enough about the topic to do it correctly. That leaves 99.9% of us out of the mix, myself included.