[GSDElsa]

I didn't put this in the SAR or SchH category since it's a training/drive builidng question related to both.

When we first got Elsa, she wasn't a fan of tugging. She was all about the ball being thrown as a reward. As we have started with SAR and SchH, I've kicked drive building with tugging up about 1000 notches. It's been a huge improvement...she's gone from not being into tugging with even hubby or I at home to it being the primary reward when she "finds" a person.

When she gets into it, she'll do a kind of low growl while actually tugging...but that's the only time.

Today we were practicing runaways with my husband as the victim. He tugged with her when she "found" him and indicated and released. Then I went to call her back to re-engage her in tugging, and she growled at me and spun around so I couldn't get the tug.

Anyhow, I'm not too worried about it since she was in drive...she was obviously "aroused" so to speak as her hackels were up (which she does all the time--that's nothing new/different) and had just been barking/whining/lunging in anticipation when hubby did the runaway. But thought I'd check in with people since it is a new behavior I haven't experienced with her.

FYI, she's never been possessive of things. I certainly don't make a habit of it, but we can take anything from her without incident.

 

[Castlemaid]

You're right, it isn't anything to worry about - just high drive excitement - good for you for getting your play/training/handling skills to get her from zero tugging to going nuts for the tug!

So now, the next step is to show her that letting you have the tug is part of the game. Also need to build her trust in the game, so that she does not equate = mom reaches for tug, I loose tug! Not sure exactly how you go about playing with her, but do lots and lots and lots of re-engaging with the tug. If it has a nice big handle on it, that should work.

Work in some obedience too, having to out the tug on command and IMMEDIATLY re-engaging the tug game as a reward for outing. Two tugs works really well for this. As soon as she drops the first one, whip out the second one and keep going.

To continue the tugging game without her feeling that the tug will be taken away, tug tug tug - let go - make a fuss over her winning the tug - let her prance around a bit with it. Call her over, and take a hold of the handle and tug tug tug - repeat until your arms fall off. When I was first working with Gryff and teaching him to trust me that the tug was not something he had to fight me for, I sometimes gave him "tug days" were not once would I ask him to give me the tug, but would engage in play with several time over the day. If I wanted him to release it, I would bring out another another tug and trade.

Now when we tug as a reward game and I let go, he immedietly brings the tug back and pushes it into my hand wanting me to re-engage, which I gladly do.

I also do quick-fire "out" games, where I hold the tug out-rebite-tug-tug-tug, out-rebite-tug-tug-tug. Be careful not to do too many outs in a session at first, some dogs will hesitate to rebite if they are outed to much.

I would bet that as your tug-reward games become more routine with more predictable rules from you, the growling will stop. Some dogs just get growly (vocal) in play, and not something that I would worry about correcting or changing.

 

[Elaine]

There are a several different types of growling. First, there's the I'm a big tough dog and I'm having a blast, please keep playing with me, growl. Nothing wrong with that. Second, there's the fearful growl. The fur is usually up when they do this and this is a problem. Third, there's the possessive don't touch me or my stuff or I will kill you growl. Again, this is a problem.

I can't see your dog's body language so you will have to decide what she's really doing in order to figure out if you need to change something.

I will say that I don't care how high my dog's drive is; he had better never growl at me to warn me off. He does growl in protest sometimes when I want to take his ball, but it's not a serious thing and we both know that all it is is a protest, and I still just take his ball anyway. My dog is allowed an opinion; he's just not allowed to act in a negative way on them.

 

[GSDElsa]

Lucia--that's pretty much what I've been doing with her. Although I lost my second leather tug I've been using in the snow and haven't ordered a new one Boo!

I don't THINK she was warning me off. The only time she really has to out a toy without immediately getting a new one is when outing to start a training excercise...so no reason to feel it's nothing more than a game.

As far as the hair up thing...that's why I specified she does it all the time. While it's a fear thing with a lot of dogs, it's an excitment thing with her. She'll get her hackles up when playing fetch...it's intimidating when she does it, but it's sort of a daily thing with her. Any time she gets excited and wound up about doing something, she gets about 3 inches taller haha.

Pretty much it was her running to hubby, back to me to indicate, "showed me" where he was, he rewarded with tugging, let go, I jumped up and down "yaying" for a second, she was prancing around, I leaned down to tug again, she growled and spun, I called her back, grabbed the tug again, let her win again......then went about everything again and rest of training session went normally.

 

[vomlittlehaus]

I think the growl was just in anticipation of what 'usually' happens. You tug, she tugs, she growls a bit, you tug some more, you let go. Just part of 'the game' you play. Yoko and I play the same game. In our game, in the house, I sit in the computer chair on wheels and she pulls me across the room. LOL She growls, I growl, just part of our game. Another thing I have taught Yoko too, is to run at me and between my legs. I slap my thighs as she is coming in and she knows that is the 'thru the legs' signal. I do this when she has a toy in her mouth (and not) so it is something we do at any time. Keeps her from playing that keep away game with the toy. It started out with a two toy toss game between the legs. Gets them to come at you fast.

 

[elisabeth_00117]

IMMEDIATLY re-engaging the tug game as a reward for outing. Two tugs works really well for this. As soon as she drops the first one, whip out the second one and keep going.

I also do quick-fire "out" games, where I hold the tug out-rebite-tug-tug-tug, out-rebite-tug-tug-tug. Be careful not to do too many outs in a session at first, some dogs will hesitate to rebite if they are outed to much.

I would bet that as your tug-reward games become more routine with more predictable rules from you, the growling will stop. Some dogs just get growly (vocal) in play, and not something that I would worry about correcting or changing.

This is what we have been doing with Stark and it has really helped our tugging matches. I really think the "quick-fire out games" that Lucia mentioned is what helped us the most though. I always try to keep 2 tugs on me now just incase, but lately I haven't needed to use them both.

The growling Stark does on occassion but I have never really given it a second thought until now, just chalked it up to drive overload and ignored it. I can take anything out of his mouth and his outs are pretty good so I have not been worried. I was always more concerned with him wanting to engage with me (and still am really even though we have come leaps and bounds).

 

[GSDElsa]

The growling Stark does on occassion but I have never really given it a second thought until now, just chalked it up to drive overload and ignored it. I can take anything out of his mouth and his outs are pretty good so I have not been worried.

And I probably wouldn't have either, except it's a brand new thing so it kind of gave me pause. It is a bit silly to be worried--considering the senario it was in--but after having fosters that had some serious resource guarding it was a slight moment of "ack what's happening!"

But I don't think twice about it when she's growling WHEN we are tugging, so I guess it's not much difference in the mist of it...I just didn't have physical possession of the tug, but she was still in the same mindset.