[Klamari]

Anyone seen GATTACA? They take the absolute best genes from both parents and make the most superior offspring possible and any 'natural' offspring is considered inferior. It's a good movie.

I saw that movie in my first semester English class, I liked it too. I dont think I would like to live in that kind of world, no physical differences, defects....those kinds of things affect who you are. I like differences between people

 

[Klamari]

I don't have a problem with the Duggars. Have as many kids as you want, if you can afford to feed and clothe them and take care of your medical needs. It's the ones who can't afford them but have them anyway that drive me crazy.

I agree. It's the 16 year old mothers who come into county hospitals to give birth, while on welfare, and baby-daddy comes in to say "hey" for 5 minutes then leaves. And she tells her nurses "I want to have as many kids as I can!!"........are you serious!?!?

I don't know if I would go as far as forced sterilization though. Even for felons. That doesn't sit right with me.
But then, I really wanted to forcfully sterilize some parents I saw come through the Pediatric ER I worked. After 3 bad child abuse cases in a row, I wanted to sterilze them ALL myself.

 

[Klamari]

I believe home schooling can most certainly be as enriching in many ways as choosing to school your children outside of the home so no that is not what I meant. I feel that parents should be their children's leaders and primary care givers though. Expecting your children to help raise your other's degrades their childhood on many levels. I believe children should have play dates, time and money for extracurricular activities, and exposure to others outside of their home and community. The saying everything I needed to know I learned in Kindergarten rings very true. Children learn how to socialize and navigate their relationships, work, and personal responsibility by having to cope in environments, and with people that are not their family.

My kids do chores and have to help each other out- thats teaching them to be decent and responsible in their home, and with their loved ones. However, when they are hurt, need guidance, and a snuggle I am there for them. 2 parents can not provide the proper emotional stimulation more than 16 children need, and because of this duties that should be restricted to the parents are forked off on children who by all means should just be getting to be kids. They run a neat and tidy ship at their own children's expense and I find them disgusting honestly. You can be conservative, religious, and home school without enslaving your children because you created a family too big to care for emotionally. These should be kids not mini mommies and daddies

That was very well said. However, even with a family of 4 or 5 children, the eldest do take on some responsibilities for the younger. Being the eldest of four, I know I had much more responsibility for my younger siblings than the eldest of 2 children would have. I had extracurricular activities for sure. But I probably didnt have as many as a single child because my parents simply didnt have the time when there were four the had extra activities.

I do think it is virtually impossible for 2 parents to emotionally be there for all those children (19 now!). And the eldest are probably given more respsibility than is ideal. But I dont think the fact that the kids lives arent always perfect, means they are psychologicaly damaged. If you talked to the older Duggar siblings, I'm sure some of them are aware that they miss out on some things and dont see their parents as often as they might like. But would they trade the existence of their younger siblings for those activities? I dont think so.

But then some feel like they missed out on things by NOT being part of large family. There are sacrifices and pro and cons either way. What is ABSOLUTELY neccesary in a child's ubringing (beside food, shelter, and protection) is very subjective, and will vary vastly depending on what part of the world youre in too.

 

[Klamari]

Just FYI, before people go spouting off what the Duggars as parents can or cannot do emotionally, physically, blah blah blah, maybe you should make a treck up here to Northwest Arkansas and ask them yourself and their children. I'm sure a lot of you would have a rude awakening. I think it's in no way your place to say those children don't get emotional support they deserve because you do not know. To say something without fact is ignorant.

Just my two cents here. I was not raised the Duggars raise their girls. My mother is a very strong willed working woman, who raised me (with my dad) how she saw fit. I have a Bachelors degree and have no problem being single, living on my own, and supporting myself.
However, I personally know a family who raise their kids identically to the way the duggars raise their children (this family of 10 kids have actually met the Duggars). They girls all wear dresses, wait to leave home until theyre married, etc. I know these girls personally, we played on some of the same sports teams for years. They believe that a woman should behave differently than I do sometimes, but they are in no way condescending or judgmental to the way I live. And those girls are not "enslaved". They whole-heartedly believe that they way they were raised is the way the Bible teaches women to live. These girls are very, very happy with the way they live and how their parents raised them. Just because they are more submissive in the public eye does NOT mean they do not make their opinions known to their husbands. They have a lot of say in the way their households are run.

I am not saying I agree with EVERYTHING they teach. I am much more independent minded. But that doesnt mean that just because they choose to live that way, that they are wrong or "enslaved". I am positive that every parent on this board will agree that they did not raise their kids perfectly. And I am also sure that no parent on this board will be in agreement on every aspect of child rearing. Everyone is different. Not wrong.

I have personally seen "wrong" parenting. When you have personally seen severe child abuse, you know what "enslavement" actually is. The Duggars are not abusing or enslaving their kids.

This is a generalization, Im not pointing fingers to anyone here. But.....I dont know why we are preached at in school and society to be "accepting" of other cultures practices, to acknowledge that some cultures have very different gender roles than we are used to here in America. And some accept and acknowledge that....and then turn right around and will jump on people like the Duggars for their differences. It doesnt make sense to me.

 

[Klamari]

I also think we all need to be responsible about the increasing population. The world would be in a much better place if the population was down to about 2 billion. People like the Duggars really aren't helping, and if everyone followed their beliefs we'd all die off.

Ok this is totally off topic but......

According to the U.S. Census Bureau, many countries are in a negative population growth (Europe, Chine, Japan). And the annual growth rate worldwide has been steadily declining since the 1960s. So if this tread keeps up, we wont be have an increasing population at all. Exponential increases arent good, but neither is too much decline.

The Duggars "beliefs" arent what made them decide to have 19 children. And I really don't think one family of 19 children is affecting whether were having an increasing world population. It obviously isn't, if our annual growth rate is declining.

 

[Klamari]

Are they learning how to cope with people different from them, are they learning independence, and can or will they be able to reason and navigate a world that works much more differently from their's?

You are very much entitled to your opinion on how you think they would turn out. But in my personal experience, because I KNOW a family that raises their kids this way, those kids were able to do all the things you listed above. All 10 of them were in some sport or another (sometimes 2 for one child), PLUS they all played some type of muscial instrument. Most, if not all, of the peers they interacted with in these two setting were kids in the "real world", who were homeschooled, private schooled, and public schooled and from all religions and walks of life. They were able to cope very well interacting with the many people in our program who were very different than they were. They didn't just interact, they were good friends to alot of the kids in our sports program who had all different philosophys on how to raise kids. I count them among the nicest,most bubbly, and polite people I know.

The oldest daughter of this family does have independence. She has her own car, she is self-employed as a music teacher and she also does volunteer work and gives private lessons in ASL. Many of her clients for music lessons are those people that are very different than she is. She just lives with her family, that his her choice, she is over 18 and she could move out if she wanted to.

I can't say how each of these kids will turn out, but I can say I feel their upbringing may hinder them later down the road when they move away from their compound and meet the real world

Well, I can't say I know how each of the Duggars will turn out either. But I do know the oldest seems to be doing pretty fine so far to me. Living on his own dime, started a family, is expanding his own business in the "real world" with "real world" clients every day. Many young people his age aren't doing half as well.

 

[Klamari]

All of my biology, geology, and geography professors have said the same thing, so I think there is science to support that.

If you talked to 100 people, you would have professors, engineers, and scientists on both sides of the global warming and natural resources arguments, all with research to support their opinion. Just because a professor says something and he has a research study that supports what he says, that doesnt mean he's right. There are plenty of badly done, inaccurate research studies.

Some pretty convincing support that a population decline might not be such a good idea is how the countries who are in a negative population growth have responded to their decreasing population. Russia, Australia, Japan, France Italy, Germany, and Poland all offer financial incentives and subsidies to encourage women to have children.

The powers that be in these countries might be seeing economic and societal problems occuring in their countries that make them want to halt this decline. If a decreasing population is so great, why are these countries trying to reverse it?

 

[Klamari]

Beat me to it. Just because a professor says it, doesn't mean it is true. There is a lot of rhetoric that gets passed from teacher to student that is philosophy or theory passed off as fact.

And then so much more that is just plain not true OR has no bearing on the reality of the world we live in and the profession you are studying in. You would think nursing schools (kind of important life and death stuff here) would get it right. But no, they don't. Some of the stuff they preach as gospel, I get to an actual hosptial, none of the nurses do it that way. And I am paying these people thousands of dollars to teach me things I will never use.

Sorry, rant over. Can you tell I'm not an academic?

 

[Klamari]

Actually, yes, they are. They are a "quiverful" family, the point is to have as many kids as to fill their gods quiver in this world. She will have kids until god makes her stop.

They are not the only family like this, they are the only one in the spotlit.

I'll leave my personal feelings on it aside for now though.

I hadn't heard that. Did they say that on the show? I saw a clip of an episode and Mrs talked about one of their first pregnancies was a miscarriage and it was very traumatic for them so they decided to not prevent and future pregnancies, so I assumed that was the reason.