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Discussion Starter #1
Are food allergies genetic? All, or just some? If a pup from a breeding has allergies what are the odds of another pup from the same breeding having allergies also?
 

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IMHO, food allergies ( and most other allergies as well) are genentic.
 

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I wish they would update this, but here is a good site to look at different things and mode of inheritance: Canine Inherited Disorders Database - Introduction You can look at the skin, heart, etc. or by breed - and can see the differences in breeds in terms of number of inherited disorders that are common.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks Jean. I will read over that info.

My main problem right now is finding people with a dog from so-and-so breeding from such-and-such breeder who has XYZ problems. Or finding the sire or dam has had problems. And then I don't know if I should still consider a pup from said breeding, if I have a bigger chance of a pup with health issues, and even more important to me, do I want to buy from a breeder who continues to BREED said dog who has XYZ problems or has progeny with said problems.

I know pups are going to pop up with health issues in any lines or breeder, but knowing when to rule out a sire, dam, breeding or breeder is hard.
 

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I would look at breeders past litters and see if you can get in touch with owners to ask these type questions. That was one big question for me when I was looking for a pup as I already have a dog with environmental allergies. Many people don't think to ask this.
But it also depends on the sire/dam matches made as well. And what the breeder feeds is very important. Some people don't think about that either...
 

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I think it's tricky.

Argos as a puppy had pyoderma, which they thought was food allergy related. I think you see a lot of people jump to food allergies. In retrospect I think it had more to do with an immature immune system and over vaccination. (My bad.) Neither his parents or his siblings have shown anything comparable to what he went through.

I've also heard of people who say that mange is genetic and I don't think I believe that either.

What might be genetic is a less than stellar immune system.
 

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I think it's tricky.

Argos as a puppy had pyoderma, which they thought was food allergy related. I think you see a lot of people jump to food allergies. In retrospect I think it had more to do with an immature immune system and over vaccination. (My bad.) Neither his parents or his siblings have shown anything comparable to what he went through.

I've also heard of people who say that mange is genetic and I don't think I believe that either.

What might be genetic is a less than stellar immune system.
I think your comments on the immune system is very important - something that often overlooked. A pup's immune system is influence way before birth. If breeders are not concerned with building immune systems before birth, the pups are in trouble.

I think the key to healthy immune systems in pups starts with the health of the sire and dam but perhaps more important is the initial "building" of the immune system during gestation. The first hours and days after birth is also critical for a pup IMO. A pup is under stress during the birthing process and under stress from living in a new environment. All this stress plays havoc on the development of their immune system. During this time it is critical to supply the dam and pups with immune building food, vitamins and minerals IMO. Some breeders supply the dam with additional vitamins and minerals during this time; some breeders supply the pups with additional vitamins and minerals hours after being born.
 

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IMO, just about any characteristic, whether mental, physical or emotional, is to some extent heritable. It can be direct, ie get the gene(s) & you get (or carry) that characteristic. It can be polygenetic where more than one gene is involved in expression of a particular trait. It can be indirect. For example, cleft palate & club foot in humans, are more commonly seen where the mothers are of short stature, possibly due to intra-uterine crowding. A genetic pre-disposition might be mediated by hormonal, nutritional or other environmental factors. However, heritability remains a factor in all of these scenarios.

Good breeders strive mightily to produce sound, healthy, long lived dogs. Any that don't, will never be good breeders. Healthy, sound, long lived bitches of good background should be bred to healthy sound, long lived dogs of good background. Nothing can guarantee that only healthy, sound long lived pups will be produced, but it certainly helps to stack the deck.

While it's worthwhile to look at the role vaccinations, diet, supplements & exercise contribute to health & longevity, beware those breeders who neglect, or decline to discuss, genetics & the particulars of their lines. For me personally, it's a HUGE red flag when myriad excuses are proffered for breeding stock which all too commonly expires at 6, 7, 8 or 9. Or breeders that proudly, lovingly point to breeding stock that died young for any reason but an accident.

Unfortunately, all too many 'good breeder' algorithms focus on just about everything but what's actually produced & how well that matches with what the pup seeker needs/wants.
 

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Are food allergies genetic? All, or just some? If a pup from a breeding has allergies what are the odds of another pup from the same breeding having allergies also?
Breeders contributing to the White Shepherd Genetics project list food allergies so my guess is yes some allergies are genetic, or at least there's a higher probability of a pup having them if sire and dam have them too.

These are all whites but here's a sample of how the database works and how the breeders put the information in the database.
These are the B listings - so if you have a dog from one of these breeders or are considering buying one you can see what genetic issues might be running through the line. (Listings can also be searched by ailment etc.)

Sorted by dogs name B

I don't know if the GSDCA has anything similar or if it's even possible given the number of GSD's registered each year...but it would be nice to see breeders be more upfront with genetic issues even on an individual level.
 

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IMHO, food allergies ( and most other allergies as well) are genentic.

Most "food allergies" are actually the result of human stupidity.

People will feed their dogs "dry kibble" (which dogs are not designed to eat, in the first place), and to make things worse the main ingredients of the owner's chosen dry kibbled feed brand will be corns, wheats, glutens, rice, etc. (food items dogs are not designed to process either) ... and then the owners will scatch their heads and wonder "why" their dogs are itching/scratching/falling apart.

The reasons most dogs fall apart from "food allergies" is because they are being fed the bone-dry remnants of food items they were never designed to eat in the first place.

Rare as hen's teeth is a dog that gets "food allergies" to a proper, meat-based, raw diet ...

Jack




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Many people feed grain/gluten free kibble diets these days, which helps a lot. Not all dogs do well on raw. Just like not all dogs do well on kibble.

And not all allergies are food related (clearly). I do think that allergies come down to genetics.
 

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Many people feed grain/gluten free kibble diets these days, which helps a lot. Not all dogs do well on raw. Just like not all dogs do well on kibble.

Every animal on the face of this earth is biologically-designed to eat raw food. NO animal, in its natural state, eats cooked food.




And not all allergies are food related (clearly). I do think that allergies come down to genetics.
Not all allergies are food-related, but all food allergies are food-related, by definition.

And the number 1 cause of allergic reaction to food is feeding an inappropriate food item, and the number 2 cause of allergic reaction to food is cooking food items down to being a bone-dry hunk of kibble (and thereby removing most of the original, nutritional value of that food item).

Jack




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Dogs are not an animal I would consider being in a "natural state" at all. They're domesticated. There is nothing natural about them, as they were, through breeding, created by humans (and humans are also animals...and we it cooked food).

You're welcome to my dog that I tried Raw with (after a ton of research with a ton of guidance) that proceeds to throw it all up and has explosive diarrhea (which does not happen to him on the correct kibble) :rolleyes:
 

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I think a lot of people jump to the assumption that something is food allergies when in reality its environmental.
 

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You can't take a domestic dog and say it should be able to survive as a "wild dog" (wolf) does.

Not all dogs can eat raw successfully, and certainly many have allergies and various disorders. In the wild, wolves with problems die. They are wiped out of the gene pool because they can't survive. Dogs like my Akira with EPI wouldn't survive. You have to make concessions for some dogs, you can't just assume that because a wolf eats a BARF diet tha the average pet dog should be able to as well. Many can, but not all.
 

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It is true that dogs are domesticated by man. It is false to say that therefore they should be fed man-made feed.

Many wild animals can be domesticated, either plucked right from the wild as young or with but a few generations of working with their young. NO animal can be plucked from the wild as a "carnivore" ... and turned into an herbivore in a mere generation (nor in a hundred generations).

Any dog (a carnivore) that breaks down when fed something it was not biologically-designed to eat (plant matter) is not suffering from a "genetic disorder" ... it is suffering from a stupidity disorder in the human being who owns it. Feeding any carnivore meat in "dry, kibbled form" (which totally removes all of the life-giving moisture, enzymes, and micro-flora) is likewise a problem with human beings, not with the dogs that fail to get enough nutrients/moisture from these over-processed feeds.

No animal on earth will do its best fed a diet it was not supposed to eat.

No animal on earth can derive as much nutrition from a food source that has had most of its moisture and nutrients taken from it through processing.

These principles are pretty basic and really can't be debated.

Perceptive animal owners tailor these principles to the benefit of their dogs; foolish owners violate these principles to the detriment of their dogs.

Good luck.



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foolish owners violate these principles to the detriment of their dogs.
It would be more foolish for me to feed my dog something "biologically appropriate" that made him horrendously sick!

Which is why I feed my dog kibble to keep him out of the vet's office due to dehydration from massive butt cannon explosions.

Principles are principles, but they are not hard and fast rules. The same diet does not work for every dog, much as you would like it to.

I'll keep with my kibble fed healthy dog ^_^
 

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And the number 1 cause of allergic reaction to food is feeding an inappropriate food item, and the number 2 cause of allergic reaction to food is cooking food items down to being a bone-dry hunk of kibble (and thereby removing most of the original, nutritional value of that food item)..
I would say that feeding a food that they are allergic to is feeding an inappropriate food item ;)

Do you have anything to back up your second statement?
 

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It would be more foolish for me to feed my dog something "biologically appropriate" that made him horrendously sick!
Which is why I feed my dog kibble to keep him out of the vet's office due to dehydration from massive butt cannon explosions.
Principles are principles, but they are not hard and fast rules. The same diet does not work for every dog, much as you would like it to.
I'll keep with my kibble fed healthy dog ^_^

I don't know enough of the details surrounding what "raw diet" you fed your dog, so I'm afraid I can't comment.

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I would say that feeding a food that they are allergic to is feeding an inappropriate food item ;)
Exactly. And corns, wheats, glutens, soys, etc. are food items to which a dog is highly-likely to be allergic ... as dogs were never designed to eat these foods.




Do you have anything to back up your second statement?
Does it need backing up?

If you take a potato and turn it into a French fry, have you increased its nutient value or decreased it? If you take a fresh piece of meat and cook it down to a little brown pellet, have you increased its nutrient value or decreased it? How about its moisture content?

Our world is about 70% water. Your dog is about 70% water. Raw meat is about 70% water. (Is anyone noticing a pattern here, an equilibrium?)

It is precisely because flesh is 70% water that dogs who eat raw regularly are able to go long periods of time w/o drinking water ... they already have it in their meal.

When a dog gets 1 lb (16 oz) of raw meat, he actually gets 11.2 oz of water and only 4.8 oz of solid mass. By contrast, when a dog gets fed dry kibble, at only about 10% moisture, he becomes dehydrated. A dog that eats 1 lb of kibble is eating 14.4 oz of solid mass and only 1.6 oz of water.

In other words, a dog fed dry kibble gets 3x as much solid mass to process as a raw-fed dog and only 1/10th the amount of water to process that much mass. This is why dogs that eat kibble drink 10x as much water from their water bowls as dogs who get fed raw. (Anyone who has ever fed raw will tell you their dogs hardly drink water compared to when they were fed kibble.)

Add to that the fact that much of the nutritional value is cooked-out of the kibble (along with the natural enzymes), and it's pretty clear why feeding raw is preferable to feeding kibble.

Jack
 
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