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Discussion Starter #21
She spent the afternoon watching me wash dishes and walking outside. Was a little skittish once fiancé got home, but let us take her on three walks together with him holding the leash. We walked to my school where I work and saw some of my students from last year hanging out in the parking lot and she did fine meeting them. She seems to like children. She is still taking hot dog pieces and other treats from my fiancé's hand.

I found a massive tick on her neck tonight while I was grooming her. It must have come from her old place because I thought I felt a lesion on her neck when I first met her, but it was this huge tick. Bleh. I'm squeamish, so she allowed my fiancé to safely remove it. She's crated and settled in for the night. All in all, a successful first day!

Here's some pics!
 

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It sounds like things are going great!!! Just remember take things very slowly with introducing her to new people so that things remain positive and safe for her. Set her up to succeed by limiting her interactions with people to you and your partner, then slowly adding one or two trusted people add a time, over many weeks, so she keeps having very positive interactions.

Luckily, we don't have much incidence of tick disease in the Gulf South, but there may be other little ticks hiding in folds or in even in ears. It might be worth giving her a dose of NexGuard (from the vet), just to be sure you get them all. We do that pretty routinely in the rescue when dogs are found with ticks -- one dose kills them all.

Has she been heartworm tested recently? If not, I would put that on the to-do list at the vet soon, given that you're in Mississippi. Any rescued dog found with an engorged tick makes me a little suspicious about the dog's HW status, as former owners who slacked off on one kind of anti-parasite prevention might have slacked on them all. Unfortunately, we're in the middle of a HW epidemic in the Deep South. Year-round monthly HW prevention is mandatory down here, but many owners forget or miss doses, creating opportunities for infection.
 

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Give her a lot of time to make the adjustments permanent. We kept a skittish rescue and found that the dog adjusted quickly to our family members, but took a long time to get used to outside people and strangers. We never did quite figure out why he adjusted to some people and not others, but every time I thought we had "fixed" the problem, it happened again. This was not the dog I mentioned previously. Your dog is adapting very well to your fiance. That is good news! Don't be discouraged if any of her old behaviors return. It takes a lot of positive experiences to overcome earlier mistreatment.
 

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Congrats! Lovely choice. Thanks so much for posting the pics, I love the good news that I can see with my own eyes. Looks like she feels safe with you two, and she can learn and grow from that safe haven.
I'll second/third/fourth about take time, expect things to backslide or appear, reappear, and don't pressure. I learned, the hard way, with my new rescue that even clicker training can equal pressure enough to shut down a dog. I wish I'd had more advice going in, but no harm done in the long run.
Beautiful girl.
 

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Discussion Starter #25
It sounds like things are going great!!! Just remember take things very slowly with introducing her to new people so that things remain positive and safe for her. Set her up to succeed by limiting her interactions with people to you and your partner, then slowly adding one or two trusted people add a time, over many weeks, so she keeps having very positive interactions.

Luckily, we don't have much incidence of tick disease in the Gulf South, but there may be other little ticks hiding in folds or in even in ears. It might be worth giving her a dose of NexGuard (from the vet), just to be sure you get them all. We do that pretty routinely in the rescue when dogs are found with ticks -- one dose kills them all.

Has she been heartworm tested recently? If not, I would put that on the to-do list at the vet soon, given that you're in Mississippi. Any rescued dog found with an engorged tick makes me a little suspicious about the dog's HW status, as former owners who slacked off on one kind of anti-parasite prevention might have slacked on them all. Unfortunately, we're in the middle of a HW epidemic in the Deep South. Year-round monthly HW prevention is mandatory down here, but many owners forget or miss doses, creating opportunities for infection.
I put Frontline Plus on her yesterday. I noticed maybe one flea on her and some signs of fleas (black specks in the fur), and of course, the tick, but I guess we do need to get started on heartworm prevention. The old owner insisted that she dosed Ophelia with her regular monthly heartworm and administered shots herself, which could be true since they were in a rural area and had horses and other farm animals that I'm sure they work with medically. It does mean that there were no records provided of when or what Ophelia has been given preventatively. I think we should start from square one at the vet's, but if she was given say, a rabies vac, within the last six months, would it harm her to have things like that done again too soon?

What information does my vet need for me to provide to best check up on Ophelia?
 

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Unfortunately, the active ingredient in Frontline (fipronil) seems to have lost effectiveness in South Louisiana -- we've seen dogs remain flea infested despite regular use of it, and the shelter vets I know have all stopped using it for the same reason. The company that makes it claims resistance doesn't exist, but my experience with fipronil hasn't been good in the last couple of years. I suspect it's highly regional.

We switched to Advantage Multi for flea andHW prevention (it's Advantage II plus a very good HW prevention component, RX only). It runs about $14/mo ordered with the vet's RX from KVsupply.com -- cheaper than separate flea and HW meds, and more effective. I also am cautious about using Heartguard (or one of its generics) for HW prevention because we're in an area where ivermectin-resistant HW larvae have been detected (theyr'e still rare, but there's no resistance to Advantage Multi, so it was a no-brainer to me to switch).

We have to do the rabies vax for all dogs in rescue with unknown histories, so it's almost certain that some of them are getting a booster they don't need. We haven't seen any problems from it. You have to do rabies vaccination by state law, so it's not something you have a choice on. In Mississippi, rabies vax by law have to be administered by a vet or someone holding a state permit to administer them. If the former owner is a regular person who just bought the vaccine and injected it, it may not even count under your state's law anyway:
Mississippi Rabies Laws :: Mississippi Board of Animal Health
 

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Discussion Starter #27
Ok, well we are going to get her into the vet ASAP. I want good flea medicine, definitely don't want her bringing fleas in to my cats, so I will see how the Frontline Plus does and switch if needed. I was buying out of Walmart, so the selection was not great.

I just ordered her research pedigree from the AKC, and her mother was bred to her grandfather (so mother-father mating) to produce her. Is this normal? I had a super inbred cat once that was probably the stupidest animal I have ever seen.

Dam: julietta de psd dn245307/04 08-11

Sire: Cuba V
 

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Where we are, rabies must be done at the vet. So, it might be a good idea to check the laws on that in your area.
 

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Ok, well we are going to get her into the vet ASAP. I want good flea medicine, definitely don't want her bringing fleas in to my cats, so I will see how the Frontline Plus does and switch if needed. I was buying out of Walmart, so the selection was not great.

I just ordered her research pedigree from the AKC, and her mother was bred to her grandfather (so mother-father mating) to produce her. Is this normal? I had a super inbred cat once that was probably the stupidest animal I have ever seen.

Dam: julietta de psd dn245307/04 08-11

Sire: Cuba V
Look up line breeding. If it's done well, they can reproduce amazing dogs very close to the original line. If not, well, it's inbreeding. You won't know without knowing more about genetics of those lines and litters that came out of them. Someone else can explain better than I did.
 

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Most if not all places that sell rabies vaccines won't sell to states that laws state it has to be given by licensed vets.
 

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BTW...your fiancée looks like a cuddly, koala bear type guy.


Jelpy
 

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Ok, well we are going to get her into the vet ASAP. I want good flea medicine, definitely don't want her bringing fleas in to my cats, so I will see how the Frontline Plus does and switch if needed. I was buying out of Walmart, so the selection was not great.

I just ordered her research pedigree from the AKC, and her mother was bred to her grandfather (so mother-father mating) to produce her. Is this normal? I had a super inbred cat once that was probably the stupidest animal I have ever seen.

Dam: julietta de psd dn245307/04 08-11

Sire: Cuba V

The way you have this listed, the sire of the puppy is the father of the dam, so they bred the bitch, Julietta to her father. No this is not condoned. I am not saying it does not happen. It would be a 1-2 breeding. Germany used to allow 2-3 breeding as the closest grand sire on the one side is the great grandsire on the other side. Someone recently told me that it is now 3-3 that would be sharing a great-grandfather.

Think of it this way, for a puppy,
The sire and dam are the first generation so 1,
you can't have a 1-1 breeding because it takes two to tango.
Each of the four grandparents are 2
A 1-2 breeding is father/daughter, Mother/son.
each of the 8 great-grandparents are 3 and so forth.

sister/brother breeding would be 2-2 one each of the parents, because the sister and the brother would be 1 and the grandparents (of the puppies) 2. Half-brother to half-sister would be 2-2 on just one of the grandparents, but still really close.

When setting type and developing a breed, maybe this type of in-breeding was necessary, maybe. But nowadays, it really is irresponsible.

It does not cause problems in temperament and health, but whatever recessives are there in the lines, are far more likely to show up in the pups.

I know you know this, but I am going to say it anyway: you have the dog, and she is here. The time for questions like this is when the breeder chose to breed. It isn't your dog's fault. And she deserves a good home.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
The way you have this listed, the sire of the puppy is the father of the dam, so they bred the bitch, Julietta to her father. No this is not condoned. I am not saying it does not happen. It would be a 1-2 breeding. Germany used to allow 2-3 breeding as the closest grand sire on the one side is the great grandsire on the other side. Someone recently told me that it is now 3-3 that would be sharing a great-grandfather.

Think of it this way, for a puppy,
The sire and dam are the first generation so 1,
you can't have a 1-1 breeding because it takes two to tango.
Each of the four grandparents are 2
A 1-2 breeding is father/daughter, Mother/son.
each of the 8 great-grandparents are 3 and so forth.

sister/brother breeding would be 2-2 one each of the parents, because the sister and the brother would be 1 and the grandparents (of the puppies) 2. Half-brother to half-sister would be 2-2 on just one of the grandparents, but still really close.

When setting type and developing a breed, maybe this type of in-breeding was necessary, maybe. But nowadays, it really is irresponsible.

It does not cause problems in temperament and health, but whatever recessives are there in the lines, are far more likely to show up in the pups.

I know you know this, but I am going to say it anyway: you have the dog, and she is here. The time for questions like this is when the breeder chose to breed. It isn't your dog's fault. And she deserves a good home.
Of course. This was just my novice question about what to expect from my dog. The cat I mentioned had all kinds of problems, sixth toes, everything, and lots of temperament issues, so I just wanted to see if this is considered a major issue when it happens in GSDs. I am only concerned about the health of Ophelia, we were looking at shelter mixes before we found her, so her lineage isn't important to me in that regard. I am not sure how to research her line and see what kinds of health problems I may need to look for. I'm new to all of this, I never even thought we'd have a dog where I could explore her ancestors like this. My fiance and I are huge genealogy buffs when it comes to our own family trees, so it's actually sort of hilarious that our dog has more pictures available of her ancestors than we do.

I have read some negative words online about the kennel where Ophelia was born, so I am not really surprised that they would do something that is not generally condoned when it comes to breeding.
 

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Open your arms. Start fresh with no preconceptions and then, work from there - forward in time....we'll be here for you:)

"Environment" can have a huge part to play, regardless of the past or genetics. Take this "fresh start" and use it to your advantage.... caring, love conquers a lot.....
 

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Thank you for adopting her! Looks like she's settling in very well. Contact the former owner and ask when she vaccinated her. Too many or too frequent vaccines are not good for their health.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Hi you guys, so we got Ophelia in to the vet this morning and unfortunately, she was diagnosed with heartworm disease. I do not believe her former owner was telling the truth about this dog's veterinary care and about dosing her every month with a heartworm preventative. The vet went over our options with us, including the least costly treatment, which is to kill the baby heartworms and let the adults live out their natural lifespan, and the recommended treatment, which is to kill all the heartworms and limit her activity for several months. What do you all recommend? We are leaning towards the recommended treatment, but I understand it is riskier, and much more expensive.

I am really attached to my girl by now, and want what's best for her. Has anyone treated a dog for heartworms successfully before? We are not really surprised to find this in her, but very disappointed and worried about her.
 

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I've done a lot of both with rescue dogs. HW is not the end of the world -- it's treatable. As "surprise" illnesses go, I prefer it over tons of other possibilities because we know the dog's chances of a complete recovery are excellent! As long as the dog is early in the disease (not caval), it is likely to recover and be just fine.

Immiticide treatment (fast kill) is the gold standard treatment. If you can afford it and the dog is strong, it's the fastest way to rid the dog of HWs. There's a good argument that you want them out as fast as possible because they are damaging the pulmonary arteries, lungs, and heart as long as they're in there.

In a young, healthy dog, the chance of complications from fast-kill with immiticide are low. It's a hard 3 months, with intense restrictions on movement (strict crate rest), but it's so hot and humid now it's not like anyone really wants to go outside anyway!

HOWEVER, I have had one foster dog die during fast-kill treatment (she threw a clot in her lungs, had multiple trips to LSU's emergency ICU clinic, got about $3000 in treatment to try to save her...and still died) -- it is not a "risk free" treatment. It would be wise to know the route to your nearest emergency clinic with an ICU (oxygen cage), just in case. It's arsenic based, and it's a tough thing for the dog to go through. Be very realistic about what it will mean: NO exercise, STRICT crate rest, leash-walk in your yard to potty, etc.

The cost of fast-kill (immicide) treatment varies immensely from clinic to clinic. I know one vet who does the series of 3 shots for $300 for a GSD-size dog. Another does it for $500. And a bunch charge $1000-1500. They all use the same dose of the same drug! No matter how much you like your vet, I'd call around to verify the price quote is reasonable, just for peace of mind.

If you consider slow kill, the ONLY way I do it is with ADVANTAGE MULTI (not Heartguard). We've seen dogs test HW neg in as few as 9 months using Doxy + Advantage Multi. (The longest I've seen it take is 18 months --12 months is probably average in our experience.) The two dogs that I personally know who tested HW-Neg in 9 months with no treatment except Doxy + Advantage Multi were older dogs--huge surprise as they had likely been HW+ a long time. I know LOTS of dogs who tested negative in 12 months. That's less than the HW life cycle so it's almost certain that the Advantage Multi is shortening the lives of the adult HWs--despite what the old research about using ivermectin says.

Advantage Multi works differently in the body than ivermectin because it builds up a steady-state in the blood after 4 months. That means the worms are constantly bombarded by it. That's the best theory any of my local vets have as to why it's killing adult HWs when the other HW preventative products are not. It's not used this way most places -- it's something I know of vets using regularly in South Louisiana (but not New Orleans).

Finally, there's some good, recent research demonstrating Advantage Multi does have some effectiveness against (young) adult HWs--a vet journal article came out in 2014 that you should discuss with your vet (one of the co-authors is Dr. McCall, a well-known HW researcher and former member of the HW Society's board):

Chandrashekar et al., Experimental Dirofilaria immitis infection in dogs: Effects of
doxycycline and Advantage Multi® administration on immature adult parasites,
Veterinary Parasitology 206 (2014) 93–98

I think the decision should be made with your vet based on your finances, the overall age and health of the dog, and severity of infection (e.g., are there clinical signs of HW disease yet)? There are times when we HAVE to do slow-kill with Advantage Multi because the dog is too weak to go through immiticide treatment (esp. with seniors). There are times when we HAVE to do fast-kill with immiticide because the disease is advancing and the dog doesn't have much time unless the worms are killed quickly. Then there are times it's a cost-benefit analysis and either decision is defensible. You've got to talk this through with your vet, since your vet is the one looking at the x-rays of the chest, listening to the heart and lungs, and looking at your dog's bloodwork.

Either way, you can save some money by asking your vet to order Doxycycline compounded for you -- Wedgewood pharmacy out of NJ sells it in 400mg chicken-flavored tablets that end up being A LOT cheaper than a large supply of the 100 mg generic capsules. Roadrunner pharmacy out of Arizona also sometimes has good pricing. Your vet will have to check the pricing for you -- they won't talk to you directly. Here's a link:
Veterinary Pharmacy, Wedgewood Pet RX
 

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My girl is almost 6yrs old. I rescued her from the streets when she was around 4-6 months old. I tried everything to get her to bond with me. She has but at a distance. She has severe anxiety when I hug her, pet her too much, growls when she is picked up to get put into tub, she won't get on the couch with me only on the floor in front of me, she is very smart. Knows basic commands. She plays with my 8yr old and his 1yr old Dachshund. I'm very disappointed in her progress after all these years but I wouldn't trade my ignorance or her resistance for another dog. I love her too much she is my lifetime dog. Who ever had her beat her badly. You couldn't touch her. That's why I named her Chewie. It took me a long time to get her where she is now. My fear is her getting hurt and her not allowing me to treat her or her biting a vet. It took 5 of us to hold her down to administer her shots and microchip. I love her regardless of the challenges.
 

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I have had two rescues with HW . One was a young dog less thana18 months and another was a adult. It has been over 10 years since I last treated a dog for H/W but both came through very well with the series of shots. It was around 900.00 dollars then . I liked the fast kill way best that way it is done However I think the suggestion make the plan with your vet is the best advice. Magwart is right about the rest and the risk. I have been lucky both times we used the fast kill.
 
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