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Ok i know this isnt a qaulity breeder and sure aint paying the price to match and assumed risk in regards to health issues which may or may not happen. However i placed a deposit on this girl. Shes a sable. Tonite they sent me a updated picture and need opinions on if its the same puppy. Im 100% sure its not but im new to shepherd puppies and there color changes but i dont think a sable will turn into a black and tan and the breeder said she darkened and it is the same pup. Whats your thoughts?
 

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For heaven's sake if you do not trust your breeder, than do not buy the dog.
 

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Your right i dont trust the breeder when they suddenly dont look like the same puppy. I have a non refundable deposit on her so all i can do is just ride it out and get whatever she gives me at this point. Its not a matter of color although sable would have been great but its the fact of what seems like she swapped puppies and is lying
 

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You are falling into the "sunk costs fallacy" in human reasoning. You've sunk some money (deposit) that you can't get back, so it becomes hard emotionally to walk away. Logically though, sunk costs don't really justify sinking MORE money into what you are learning may have been a bad bet.

Do some reading on this trick of the mind -- it will feel familiar (it affects nearly all of us in some way):
https://litemind.com/sunk-cost-bias/
 

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*have a non refundable deposit on her so all i can do is just ride it out and get whatever she gives me at this point.*
You do not have to take "whatever she gives you". There is always the option of walking away. If you have this much mistrust with the breeder I absolutely would walk away and just consider the lost deposit a life lesson.

Getting a pup from a good breeder saves a lot of heartache.
 

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Its not so much about the money aspect... I have been looking forward to having her and suddenly she doesnt even look like the same puppy. I feel betrayed and lied to and wanted opinions from experienced owners and breeders if maybe this is all a mistakw that a puppy can change like that. Color isnt the main factor but being lied to about a puppy ive made a commitment to just rubs me wrong. Id be more ok with being told the pup didnt make it or they want to keep it would i take this other over that one. Not its the same puppy it just turned black in a week and a half. Doesnt mean the puppy is no good cause of a color but dealing with a dishonest breeder is not what i intended which is why i came here for opinions before calling her out
 

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your deposit is just a drop in the bucket compared to what it takes to maintain a GSD over their lifetime, and chump change with maintaining an unhealthy pup.

there are no bargain pups in this breed.
 

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sounds like you already called her out and they claim it's the same pup, just darker.

you are absolutely correct in that a sable dog will never be black and tan. in the first photo, the pup is unmistakably sable. I don't know what your plans are but before any further accusations, I would at least ask for a photo of the second pup from a side angle to be positive it isn't sable (although I agree, it appears Black and Tan in the photo)

all of that said.... pups should be matched by temperment and personality, not color. 3-4 weeks is too young to identify most traits.

I would not accept a dog from this "breeder"
 

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Stop already.

you said you put a deposit on a sable pup.

the picture you show IS a SABLE pup . They go through several changes .

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/general-information/138564-sable-color-change.html

and many other threads if you care to look.

As a breeder , I don't like the deposit on a particular pup selected at an age where they can do no more than suckle .

YOU don't know if the pup is even suitable for you .

The colour can darken that much .

Simple question what colours are the sire and dam?

You don't even have the pup and you are fretting about being
mislead and cheated.
What happens 4 months from now when the ears , which may
have been up , fall , or alternate in being erect , when teething?
 

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Buying any pup sight unseen at a early age you cannot say what confirmation or flaws or future health problems he or she may have. Buying a puppy from non ofa or health tested parents puts the puppy at higher risk for all the above. Which i knew those risks. Ive been in rescue, trainer, groomer and started school for vet tech. Im not a newbie to animals. I took this risk based upon this being local breeder with beautiful parents and she was going to be a family companion. But after said breeder all the sudden sends me photos of a puppy i do not believe would change in a week and a half to a black and tan and just tells me oh she darkened they all did. It makes me question why? Why not be honest and ask if i would take her instead for whatever reasons. I guess im old fashioned and think people are honest and should do dealings as honest as possible. So this got under my skin. How they could think they could swap pups and just tell me its the same puppy. I just wanted to simply ask if at all possible could a sable (yes they can darken) would change to what appears to be a black and tan. since i am not a breeder i just wanted clarification before making a final decision. Its not about color of a pet puppy at all i want to stress that. Id be fine with a blk and tan however this breeder is being dishonest and that is what gets to me.
 

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The parents were beautiful? Just curious what their temperaments were like since this is a local breeder. Have you met the parents? Few things would be more important than that when selecting a puppy to be a family companion.
 

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Don't you worry! She's the same puppy. Like human children ( baby looked like her dad when she was born, but in three months she looks like her grandma) young dogs may quickly go through changes in their appearance especially their coat. Then, why should you worry at all? Are you intended to breed dogs for their coat colour, for dog shows, etc? Coat colour doesn't affect GSD qualities or health. Though, if you doubt so badly - make sure that your puppy has the same parents. The best thing - to see her with her mother. Insist on it with the breeder. All in all, you should have seen your chosen at least twice before you decided to pay full price. If her mother doesn't want to be with her, doesn't protect from you in some way - then she is not her puppy, but was borrowed from some other litter in order to sell. It doesn't happen with pedigree dogs, professional breeder will microchip all puppies regardless of their future in the day they were
born, at least that is true for Britain.
 

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It's the same. But goodness you are paranoid. Perhaps a Shepherd in general isn't the dog for you.
exactly , armed with little information, stating that this isn't a quality breeder , (so why the heck initiate anything), and already going to an emotional feeling "cheated and mislead" ---

You are entering a relationship with the breeder for the next 10 years .
There is going to be dissatisfaction and suspicion everytime an ear drops , or the dog may have a touch of pano .

so is the thinking going to be -- The "other one" , the one I really wanted wouldn't have this going on - I got the defect . They knew it and I deliberately got the lemon.

The pup , the suspected "substitution" is the subject of
all this negativity and will feel it .

You're not good from the beginning.

Not with the dog . Not with the breeder .

So why?

Not worth it . Not for the breeder .

When the coat changes when the pup is around 12 to 14 weeks and has a dark black ring around its tail , are you going suspect
that the breeder has driven by and exchanged pups again?

Sables change colour - dramatically sometimes . A pup may be brownish and fuzzy - then darken and then at 12 weeks look like a fawn colour , shed that out , and be a different dark grey . Sables change .

If both parents are sable , there are no black and tans .

For your mental peace and quiet - go somewhere else.
 

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I was able to watch my sable pup Flyn and his 3 siblings grow from birth (2 black, 2 sable) because I used his breeders property a couple times a week for training practices with my 2 year old. The two sables, Flyn and his sister were born different colors. He was more caramel colored with some black and she was a little darker. I was shocked at how quickly the female sable changed her coloring. From one week to the next she darkened tremendously and had bits of tan appeared around her ears and hind legs. I remember saying to the breeder had I not watched her grow I would have thought she was a different pup. Truly she looked totally different in such a short time.
 

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Im just going to add to much of the same and say that yes a sable pup. Max from 4 weeks to 6 weeks huge changes he looked like a black and tan at 6 weeks and totally different when we picked him up. He still lightens and darkens. Look in sable color changes on this forum. Little knowledge can lend itself to paranoia so you can always do something about it. German shepherd pups whether be a Black and Tan, sable, or bi color is one breed that will constantly change and only have an idea what they may look like as an a adult.
 
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