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Discussion Starter #1
I'm looking for some specific info about Feed-Sentials. Since plenty on here feed it (at least that's my perception) I'm posting publically rather than PM'ing Carmen.

I was doing some research on when to switch from puppy food to adult food, and came across the concern that supplementation may increase the total calcium intake for the puppy. Opps! I didn't even consider that. Here I'm feeding a nice low calcium puppy food and may be inadvertently bumping it up with the 2 teaspoons of Feed-Sentials that Jinks gets daily.


  1. I'd like to know how much calcium is in this product.

Secondly, Pimg gets 3 teaspoons of Feed-Sentials daily, and with her aging I want to ensure she's getting sufficient levels of glucosamine/MSM/chondroitin supplementation. That's hard to do since there doesn't seem to be any public documentation of content quantities.


  1. I'd like to know how much glucosamine/MSM/chondroitin is in this product.

Both of my dogs get two "splashes" of Sh-Emp oil daily. I found measuring a pain since that dirties another spoon! LOL! (I hate doing dishes.) So I just put a splash in their bowls at breakfast and dinner. I assume this product has neither calcium or glucosamine support, though I suppose it would be nice to get that confirmation.
 

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Only Carmen would have that information . I asked her for the EPA/DHA in the Sh-Emp oil and never got an answer. It's possible that there has never been an analysis done on it as is required in the U.S.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Agreed. I was hoping that she has done this analysis and may be able to post the data here for the benefit of all of us who use the product(s).
 

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as to the fish oil -- this is sourced from deep cold water wild caught herring which is inspected along several points from catch to mash to separate to decant to my final order , accompanied by a lab analysis declaring it free of any contaminants, metals , pesticides etc. I and others get the oil portion . Raw . Not refined . Farmers who practice organic farming and are Certified Organic get the fish flesh to amend their soil . Included in the later group are large dairys which offer organic milk. The fish pulp enriches the soil , enriches the pasture and the milk is enhanced this way naturally as a byproduct of good farming practices. Healthier more productive animals. This milk is available under the Dairy O (Neilson's) in Ontario.

Typically herring EPA and DHA is 1:40 to 1:50 grams per tablespoon.
Fish oil provides omega 3 , anti inflammatory.

The other question is much more complex to answer and will take a stab at it later tonight.

I take every effort to only use the best , cleanest , natural ingredients. My dogs have excelled on this formulation for over 25 years . I have seen dramatic positive results from dogs with chronic problems.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
I take every effort to only use the best , cleanest , natural ingredients. My dogs have excelled on this formulation for over 25 years . I have seen dramatic positive results from dogs with chronic problems.
Thanks for the response Carmen. The quoted section here is the reason I continue to use it. I have no doubt the formula is fantastic. I would just like to ensure I'm not giving my puppy (approaching 8 months old) too much calcium, and ensure that my adult (7.5 years old) is getting enough joint support. Some numbers would be fantastic if they're available. When my vet asks me how much glucosamine Pimg gets, I have no answer for her right now. Looking forward to your response later tonight!
:toasting:
 

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But that doesn't answer my question. Sh-Emp oil has herring, hemp and coconut oil, correct? So how much EPA/DHA per tablespoon serving?
 

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yes it does -- The hemp oil supports / elevates the levels of omega 3 , which are outbalanced by omega 6 through the diet . Your level of DHA and EPa per tablespoon will be determined by the distribution of the other two ingredients in that tablespoon. All oils have different densities . This is not a therapeutic "drug" .
 

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Yes. I understand that. But it does not answer my question. I am asking for an O3:O6 mg/tablespoon given the ingredients of your oil. Thank you anyways.
 

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accompanied by a lab analysis declaring it free of any contaminants, metals , pesticides etc.
I couldn't find the lab analysis, could you post a link to it please.

Also, is there anyplace someone can look up how much of each ingredient is in your supplements. For example how much garlic powder, etc.
 

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Tho I can't speak for Carmen, I find with some things, you aren't going to get specific answers as to ingredients/proportion of ingredients because it's like giving away a trade secret..

If I make dog treats, and tell you exactly the amounts of ingredient, what's to stop you (general you) from just recreating it yourself?? Ya know, like giving out the kentucky fried chicken recipe? LOL
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Asking for a calcium and glucosamine content analysis is hardly asking for trade secrets.
 

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willy your right, but ya never know if you'll get an answer or not:)
 

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I agree, Diane. I wouldn't ask for the amounts of each ingredient because that is a trade secret such as the herbal ingredients of Feed Sentials or the probiotic/enzyme mix and unless you know about herbs and what they do, the average person has no business trying to mix it. I would assume Carmen has some sort of patent, or legal claim, on the particular mixture of her products.

But any fish oil I buy has a listed amount of EPA/DHA per serving and any joint supplement you buy will have the amount of gluc/chond./msm that it has in it. I wouldn't think that was a trade secret. It's really not hard to figure out how much EPA/DHA is in a product. A typical fish oil has 180EPA/120 DHA mg per 1000 mg of oil. Hemp oil is typicall 4:1 or 3:1. Coconut oil has no O3. A minimum EPA/DHA can be derived by the manufacturer of said product doing a simple calc without exposing her trade secret based on the oils and how concentrated they are.

And I want to know so I know if Jax is getting so I can balance her diet. It's really very simple...either the information is provided, same as any other manufacturer of an item, or someone else can have my money for a product of equivalent quality. I don't think it's out of line to ask for that information so a person can properly care for their animal.
 

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I am just wondering if anybody uses all these checks and balances in their own diet?

First off - just b/c a product lists mg.'s for example doesn't mean that it is in bioavailable form, natural and/or even used by the body as well as other health factors...Sooo

I found this thread in a google search, as Carmen explains calcium in link#7

http://www.germanshepherds.com/foru...166491-german-shepard-not-enough-calcuim.html
 

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Yes, I do. I take O3's based on the EPA for inflammation. I know under a certain amount, I get no benefit and I know this because of how the herniated disc in my neck feels.
 

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Jax I do hope things are okay for your dog.

You know that I put in some major time back in 2011 when your dog was having problems . Many long emails, lots of links , lots of thought and time . Even to the point of spending my late afternoon on 31/12/2011 providing more answers and offering you my holistic vet's personal information so that your Dr Wilcox and she could come up with the best solution .

The thing with food is that what matters is how something is absorbed. The metabolism of omega 3 is influenced by the amount of omega 6 in the diet which competes for the same enzymes and by co-factors such as Vit B C E zinc and magnesium . Because one of the problems in most diets, canine and human is the large over balance of omega 6 I have used a larger portion of fish oil AND I have used hemp oil as a source of omega 3 to compensate and as a source for phospholipids which enable better absorption of those beneficial omega 3s. DHA can convert to EPA and vice versa -- .
All oils are natural , unrefined . Exactly how much DHA EPA you are going to have in one tablespoon I cannot say because it depends on the distribution of the three ingredients . The major ingredient is raw natural clean herring oil . If you require brain healthy phosphatides then you can add lecithin from soy or egg yolk , or rice bran oil .
All ingredients have been declared.
Here is a label --- all ingredients are declared --


Omega-3 Phospholipid
Peptide Complex
292 mg**Containing Phospholipids, Omega-3 [DHA (docosahexaenoic acid) and EPA (eicosapentaenoic acid)] and bioactive peptides extracted from Atlantic Salmon (Salmo salar), in a balanced ratio as found naturally in salmon; not chemically altered or artificially spiked with DHA/EPA

**Daily Value Not Established

Other Ingredients: maltodextrin, tricalcium phosphate, gum arabic, modified cellulose, silica, citrus essential oil, titanium dioxide, microcrystalline cellulose, stearic acid, iron oxide.
Contains no: sugar, salt, soy, yeast, wheat, gluten, corn, artificial coloring, artificial flavoring or preservatives. Could be suitable for some vegetarians. No animal by-products.
Heavy metal analysis conducted on every batch using ICP-MS method and found to be pure and safe.
If pregnant or nursing, consult a health care practitioner before using.
 

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first and foremost Feed-Sentials is FOOD , not a drug , a food which confers many benefits and is a convenient , whole body's supply of all the other requirements over and above the macro nutrients one would get when feeding a raw diet , those being protein , fat and mineral (calcium).

My pups are weaned on to the powder . A bit mixed in with raw goat milk and the first bits of ground chicken with finely ground bone. Then they grow big and strong with energy and shiny coats and no problems with diarrhea or downed pasterns . Wildo in the last month I have taken 3 adults aged 3 to 5 years for OFA --- and as is my experience they are all OFA (should come in good , possibly one excellent) . That is my experience over the last 10 years plus ! good orthopedics . I do put some credit to how they are being fed.

Calcium is present in all vegetable matter . Not talking about vegetables , but greens .

The amount of calcium (and other minerals) varies from batch to batch affected by terroir . Depending on where a "green" is grown , the conditions drought / rainy , how and when harvested . I use raw ingredients from the human food stream , nutriceutical , same as the health food greens formulas . The ingredients I use are organic and / or wild crafted.

Calcium is concomitant . There is no calcium added that is not part of the whole food ingredient.

The calcium in dandelion greens , for example is 52mg per 28 grams (one ounce) . I can tell you by the pound how many pounds of dried organic dandelions went in to a batch that yields 23 units of 2 (plus) pound units . But I can't tell you how much dandelion greens ended in the unit that you have .

Everything is added , thoroughly mixed , packaged tight to bulging lid . Made in batches the same week as they are shipped . Hands on .

When I order my ingredients I buy enough to create 3 batches at most , which allows me a cushion of time to re-order and have the new stuff arrive just as the last of the other is sent away.

Sometimes I get an ingredient from Chile , or America , depending on availability. That would alter the composition. Sometimes I get organic carob from Virginia , other times it comes from Spain. That would alter the composition.

MSM and Glucosamine are in the batch in a ratio of 2 MSM per 1 Glucosamine. Based on the batch size I provided that would be 2 pounds of MSM and 1 pound of Glucosamine.
How much is in any particular unit is not known and how much is in the spoon or two that you provide is variable.

These ingredients are in there because I felt they were beneficial to overall health as a part , a supporting ingredient . If one feels more MSM is needed for a specific problem such as demodex where MSM , an organic sulfur is beneficial then MSM as an isolated , independent ingredient should be given. If a dog has advanced orthopedic problems then glucosamine in conjunction with green lipid mussel is a direct therapy.

Food cannot be patented or protected .

There have been several forum members who have had severe chronic health problems , which were attended to by vets for a long time with resolution , one case coming to mind was an anti biotic resistant staph infection which finally was eliminated allowing the female dog to be spayed . I get feedback all the time with positive results.
I have contributed to shelter-dogs, have assisted forum members quietly and privately who have rescued dogs , have offered to help a very needy dog that I still wonder what happened to him (Wolfstraum also had some offers to help him) . I have taken on dogs that had actual dates set for euthanasia --- severe malassezia -- and the dog had a good 6 years plus with good health.

If you want I will go through each and every ingredient and tell you how much calcium in barley grass and alfalfa and mint , etc etc.

worst of worst if your dog should eat one or two or three containers of Feed-Sentials is that the dog would be bunged up -- carob is a terrific anti diarrheal -- solid stool for sure .

In fact there honestly was a case where an owner with dog in back seat with an order of the Feed-Sentials discovered too late that the dog was so beautifully quiet because he was guiltily eating the powder after chewing through the container.
 

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commercial kibble "Here I'm feeding a nice low calcium puppy food "

my way of feeding dogs has been raw -- interviewed for article in Hoflin Publications fall issue 1983 featuring raw fed dogs . At that time I had been feeding raw for about 5 years but there were lots of interruptions --- resources disappearing. Used to go by public transit (street car) to a kosher chicken slaughter house that used to be on Spadina south of College . Even in the heat of summer. When the Asian community expanded to Broadview and Gerrard I would jump on my bike with dog running beside get exotic cuts and lots of stewing chicken which were in bags slung over the handle bars as dog and I rushed back for kids coming home from school for lunch or final dismissal. Ontario people remember Knob Hill Farms -- well I used to get their 40 pound boxes of chicken legs -- until that business closed and then it was on to the slaughter house direct .
Feed-Sentials was created for my own use as part of the raw fed diet . A convenient thorough head to tails food -- the whole body . I would never give it a second thought to toss the dog an extra chicken neck or two trying to analyse the calcium. In raw feeding it is the balance over all , over time , variety and volume varying.
From Dogs Naturally Magazine "
RAW FEEDING GUIDELINES

The key points to remember with a raw diet are:
  • Balance over time
  • The calcium and phosphorus ratio should be 1:1. Meats are high in phosphorus, bones are high in calcium and whole prey, fish, eggs and tripe have a balanced ratio.
  • Organ meat should not exceed 15% of the diet. Feed liver once a week (or several small servings per week) and try to find an organic source if possible because the liver is responsible for filtering toxins out of the body.
  • Feel free to feed ‘weird and icky things’ such as chicken feet, beef trachea, tails, lung, kidney, testicles and pizzles. Beef trachea, trim, chicken and turkey feet are loaded in natural chondroitin and glucosamine which help to build healthy joints.
  • If feeding pork or salmon, be certain to freeze the meat for two weeks before feeding to reduce the small risk of parasites.
  • NEVER feed cooked bones of any type. Raw bones are soft enough to bend and digest easily. For optimal safety, meal times should always be supervised.
Try to find grass fed animals that are not given hormones or medications if possible. Younger animals in general will have accumulated fewer toxins to pass on to your dog.
WHAT TO FEED

One common concern with raw feeding is that it is not ‘complete and balanced’. This is untrue for two reasons. First, nobody knows what complete and balanced is, so it is difficult to make this claim. Second, balance can occur over time: every meal does not need to be completely balanced as long as the nutritional needs of the dog are met over the long run. You don’t calculate the exact percentages of protein and carbohydrates, and the exact amount of vitamins and minerals in each of your meals, and you don’t have to do it with your dog’s meals. If you are prudent, then it will balance out over time.
The majority of my dogs’ diet (about 50%) is raw, meaty bones (RMB). This can include chicken backs, wings and necks (or even whole carcasses), lamb necks, pork necks, turkey necks, ox tails, beef ribs, turkey tails; any meaty bone that can be completely consumed by your dog. If you are feeding meatier meals (turkey or lamb necks), feed about 60% RMB, if your choices are bonier (chicken backs, pork necks, wings or ribs), feed about 40% RMB.
Large, weight bearing bones such as marrow and knuckle bones are not considered RMB’s if the dog is not able to consume the bone. These can be given as a recreational bone although I do not use them because they can break teeth and the softer joints can cause impactions or blockages. I do find beef neck bones to be a wonderful recreational bone for my dogs."


Kibble though is a different thing . Vitamin Pre-mixes. Many from suppliers , manufacturers in China . Not all calcium is bio available !!

also from Dogs Naturally Magazine Think You Can Avoid Pet Foods Made In China? Think Again! | Dogs Naturally Magazine
 

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Thank you for the answer, Carmen. I'm not sure why my private email asking this question was ignored, and all emails since then, but I appreciate the time you spent to post this answer. As far as helping me previously, I thanked you many times for your interest and help with Banshee during that conversation. I'm not sure how it's relevant to this conversation.
 
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