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"I want my dog to fear me" - Tom Davis

“That is laughable, actually comical.”

You’ve taken the statement way out of context.

What’s your point? Are you a positive only handler that has a problem with balanced trainers?

Do you think that R+ is going to work with every single high drive working dog?

Give us your opinion so we can have a conversation.

I personally am terrified that my dog might scare or attack livestock - because if he does, he’ll be dispatched by a farmer with the law on his side. How do I tell my dog that in English or Welsh? I can’t - I need to make him aware there are things to be scared of - not me, or sheep, but the consequences of chasing them. But maybe it’s more straightforward if he fears me (when necessary and to a certain extent)?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
“That is laughable, actually comical.”

You’ve taken the statement way out of context.

What’s your point? Are you a positive only handler that has a problem with balanced trainers?

Do you think that R+ is going to work with every single high drive working dog?

Give us your opinion so we can have a conversation.

I personally am terrified that my dog might scare or attack livestock - because if he does, he’ll be dispatched by a farmer with the law on his side. How do I tell my dog that in English or Welsh? I can’t - I need to make him aware there are things to be scared of - not me, or sheep, but the consequences of chasing them. But maybe it’s more straightforward if he fears me (when necessary and to a certain extent)?
Lol. As another poster mentioned in another thread, the word "fear" elicits an emotional response.

I know the context. Watch the video and you'll know it too.

BTW, the title of the thread is "fear is beneficial".
 

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Lol. As another poster mentioned in another thread, the word "fear" elicits an emotional response.

I know the context. Watch the video and you'll know it too.

BTW, the title of the thread is "fear is beneficial".
So why not add your thoughts? Otherwise it’s just a link without context… Actually a waste of time.

Explain why you’ve posted this link and what your thoughts are or what you’re looking for.

Starting a post with “lol” doesn’t evoke much respect; I respect Tom Davis.
 

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“That is laughable, actually comical.”

You’ve taken the statement way out of context.

What’s your point? Are you a positive only handler that has a problem with balanced trainers?

Do you think that R+ is going to work with every single high drive working dog?

Give us your opinion so we can have a conversation.

I personally am terrified that my dog might scare or attack livestock - because if he does, he’ll be dispatched by a farmer with the law on his side. How do I tell my dog that in English or Welsh? I can’t - I need to make him aware there are things to be scared of - not me, or sheep, but the consequences of chasing them. But maybe it’s more straightforward if he fears me (when necessary and to a certain extent)?
He’s certainly no positive only person and your statements actually support what he believes and is saying. I have a small elaboration on something you said. It’s not that positive reinforcement doesn’t work on high drive dogs. Quite the contrary, it works phenomenally on high drive dogs. You will have more struggles trying to use positive reinforcement on a low drive dog. What I think you meant is there are times with a dog that positive reinforcement isn’t a good answer or the best answer.
 

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I watched part of the video but had to stop when Mr. Davis implied that the reason we don't drive 100mph in a school zone is fear of being ticketed.
Ok:confused: He rails against marketing hype while engaging in marketing hype himself.A better video could be found I think.He's too much like a carnival barker to me.
 

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He’s certainly no positive only person and your statements actually support what he believes and is saying. I have a small elaboration on something you said. It’s not that positive reinforcement doesn’t work on high drive dogs. Quite the contrary, it works phenomenally on high drive dogs. You will have more struggles trying to use positive reinforcement on a low drive dog. What I think you meant is there are times with a dog that positive reinforcement isn’t a good answer or the best answer.
How would I know who this person is or their point without context?

He(or she) hasn’t said anything…

Did I say positive reinforcement doesn’t work? My dog receives balanced training.

Do let me know if I’ve missed something here with this new user that I’m supposed to know about.
 

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I watched part of the video but had to stop when Mr. Davis implied that the reason we don't drive 100mph in a school zone is fear of being ticketed.
Ok:confused: He rails against marketing hype while engaging in marketing hype himself.A better video could be found I think.He's too much like a carnival barker to me.
Mr Davis? Isn’t he Tom?

It’s a good point that you’ve raised. I guess it’s difficult being perfect. I’d guess that most users of the forum take bits from multiple sources? I think the opposite would be cult like!
 

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How would I know who this person is or their point without context?

He(or she) hasn’t said anything…

Did I say positive reinforcement doesn’t work? My dog receives balanced training.
You don’t have to know who he is. You can watch the video and comment on it. He didn’t say anything. He left it there for an open discussion. The question you asked.
Do you think that R+ is going to work with every single high drive working dog?
In the context of your full statement, it implied that positive reinforcement doesn’t work on high drive dogs. I elaborated on that point.
What’s the point of this thread?
He is saying the dog having fear of certain consequences and to some extent of his owner is good. As I said in another thread, the word fear invokes an emotional response when people read it. You aren’t arguing with anyone who disagrees with you. You just had some misunderstanding of what the OP actually believes.
 

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You don’t have to know who he is. You can watch the video and comment on it. He didn’t say anything. He left it there for an open discussion. The question you asked.

In the context of your full statement, it implied that positive reinforcement doesn’t work on high drive dogs. I elaborated on that point.

He is saying the dog having fear of certain consequences and to some extent of his owner is good. As I said in another thread, the word fear invokes an emotional response when people read it. You aren’t arguing with anyone who disagrees with you. You just had some misunderstanding of what the OP actually believes.
I asked OP to elaborate.

My understanding of R+ is ‘positive only’ - if I’m wrong the apologies, I’m in the poorest country in the former version of EU and English is my second language.

‘He’ didn’t say anything, just a video and a quote, I asked for elaboration - what’s the point of the thread? How on earth will I understand what the OP believes? That’s why I asked? Am I missing something?
 

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Positive Reinforcement is not the same as Positive Only
Great, you’ve managed to tell me I’m wrong without a decent explanation other than “you’re wrong”. From the reply I’d guessed my understanding of “r+” was wrong. I don’t have the same resources as you other people, kind of in the dark, that’s why I joined.

As a moderator, why not try to help the thread along? Instead of showing how wrong I am because I didn’t understand the context of the OP without any comment or explanation…
 

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I guess my question to the OP is are you for it or against it? Just posting video doesn't really give me your viewpoint. Pointing to the title doesn't help - it could still mean that you are posting it for the controversy it will cause. I'm not interested in the video, haven't watched it, insufficiently interested. I'm more interested in the reason for posting it.

So ... do you <OP> believe fear is beneficial?
 

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I asked OP to elaborate.

My understanding of R+ is ‘positive only’ - if I’m wrong the apologies, I’m in the poorest country in the former version of EU and English is my second language.

‘He’ didn’t say anything, just a video and a quote, I asked for elaboration - what’s the point of the thread? How on earth will I understand what the OP believes? That’s why I asked? Am I missing something?
Operant conditioning has 4 quadrants. Positive means adding to the environment. Negative is taking away from the environment. Reinforcement strengthens behaviors or makes them more likely to occur. Punishment weakens behaviors or makes them less likely to occur. In a literal sense someone who says they are positive only is saying they only use positive reinforcement to train. That is actually impossible. More likely they are “force free” and against physical corrections tools like prongs and e collars. They will still use other quadrants such as removing interaction with them to try and teach the dog. For someone to say they are positive reinforcement only, they are either marketing or have a poor understanding of operant conditioning.
 

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I guess my question to the OP is are you for it or against it? Just posting video doesn't really give me your viewpoint. Pointing to the title doesn't help - it could still mean that you are posting it for the controversy it will cause. I'm not interested in the video, haven't watched it, insufficiently interested. I'm more interested in the reason for posting it.

So ... do you <OP> believe fear is beneficial?
Conveyed my point in a more efficient manner. 👍
 

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Operant conditioning has 4 quadrants. Positive means adding to the environment. Negative is taking away from the environment. Reinforcement strengthens behaviors or makes them more likely to occur. Punishment weakens behaviors or makes them less likely to occur. In a literal sense someone who says they are positive only is saying they only use positive reinforcement to train. That is actually impossible. More likely they are “force free” and against physical corrections tools like prongs and e collars. They will still use other quadrants such as removing interaction with them to try and teach the dog. For someone to say they are positive reinforcement only, they are either marketing or have a poor understanding of operant conditioning.
Very nice description, thank you.

I still was wondering what the OP had to say? They sounded like trying to ignite a battle - which has been achieved.

Isn’t it clickbait to add a link and a quote with no input? I asked for their input and got “lol”
 

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Mr Davis? Isn’t he Tom?

It’s a good point that you’ve raised. I guess it’s difficult being perfect. I’d guess that most users of the forum take bits from multiple sources? I think the opposite would be cult like!
I don't care for this particular video is all.I'm not commenting on the man himself.An actual training video to discuss about the pros and cons and the OPs thoughts about his likes and dislikes would be good.
 

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I don't care for this particular video is all.I'm not commenting on the man himself.An actual training video to discuss about the pros and cons and the OPs thoughts about his likes and dislikes would be good.
That’s fine.

I added my thoughts and asked for OP’s.

Got told:
Lol. As another poster mentioned in another thread, the word "fear" elicits an emotional response.

I know the context. Watch the video and you'll know it too.

BTW, the title of the thread is "fear is beneficial".
 
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