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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This coming Tuesday there is going to be a City Council Meeting in regards to PitBulls. This is based on two major attacks local, and 65% of all police and animal control calls are Pit Bull related.

So, here is what I think is going on, and believe somewhere there has to be proof of it.

I believe that The "guard dog" of such a such time is always been the dog to watch out for.

When the Doberman was the dog, that was the dog of most bites,
When the Rotweiler was the dog
then the GSD, but I am trying to locate something to support this.

I also believe that the a majority of people who have the dogs with incident would have had the same incident regardless of the breed, but I have not found the right way to search for this, geographic, or demographics.

ANd on a side note wholly cow.. Did you know the GSD has a bite of 238-750#s as compared to a pitbull that was shown to be 350# of force.. This blew my theroy of the dog not knowing its own strength.. and I still have homework to do..due Tuesday night as well.
 

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I believe that The "guard dog" of such a such time is always been the dog to watch out for.



ANd on a side note wholly cow.. Did you know the GSD has a bite of 238-750#s as compared to a pitbull that was shown to be 350# of force.. .
Generally, a comparison of my dog bites harder than yours is nothing more than the grade school argument of "my dad can beat your dad". I say that having considerable experience with dogs that "bite" for a living. If there is enough pressure to break skin and sink the teeth to the gumline, and remain attached, how much pressure is needed. The low number you posted is more than enough for that feat. My point; if you are going to defend a certain breed, you need to compare apples to apples. You can't compare the bite of a toy poodle to the bite of a Doberman. Look for the severity of the bite, by breed. It will tell the story. The reason pits are in the news is not some covert conspirecy to outlaw pits. It's because of the noteriety they have recieved. Generally because if a pit is involved the bite is considerably more serious than with other breeds. I'm opposed to BSL of any type. I'm certainly in favor of holding the person responsible, not the breed. I also understand, something needs to be done. There is a reason drug dealers and your common thug gravitate towards the pit.

ETA the following link: you might find this link useful. It may not agree with your argument, but it is information you are looking for.

Fatal dog attacks in the United States

DFrost
 

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I think it also has a lot to do with the popularity of the breed a the time.
every where you turn now someone is walking around with some sort of a bully dog. and people breed them to just make a quick buck. so the population is growing rapidly. more dogs = more bites.
at times when dobies or rotties were "cool" to own statistics might have been different.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Dfrost, Perhaps you missed th point I was making with the bite, I wondered if it was a dog that did not know its own strength, I was not attempting to do the "My dog thing, but I certainly see how it would have came that way".

Thank you for the link, I was reading this artical Pit bull terriers by animal behavior dog bite expert for attorneys when you replied, seems to be a decent amount of info here. But still have not found the right reference for what I am hoping to get.

As far as a paticular breed, my concern is what happens next, or what will the next breed be. In the site you found, it states, a Dog is 85% less likely to bite if it has a basic obediance class. If we want to mandate something, it should be responsible ownership..

By the way, Thank you for what you do!!
 

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I think it also has a lot to do with the popularity of the breed a the time.
every where you turn now someone is walking around with some sort of a bully dog. and people breed them to just make a quick buck. so the population is growing rapidly. more dogs = more bites.
at times when dobies or rotties were "cool" to own statistics might have been different.
I agree. I once read an article on GSD bites and it did defend them by stating the reason why bites have went up is the popularity of the breed has went up. More popularity = more GSDs and more less quality GSDs bred by BYBs and puppy mills to make money.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
I agree. I once read an article on GSD bites and it did defend them by stating the reason why bites have went up is the popularity of the breed has went up. More popularity = more GSDs and more less quality GSDs bred by BYBs and puppy mills to make money.

I am back and forth on this as well, if I am mix breeding, am I not breeding out the very behavior everyone is afraid of..

The site listed above states the GSD and the Chow are more likely to bite then a PitBull..A Pitbull is more likely to have a fatality or injury. I HAVE A HARD TIME FINDING ANYTHING that supports Pitbull ownership, other then the people I have know who have had them. But, what will be targetted next, or, what if they sum it up with "No Large Breed" or " no dog that might one day be aggresive because we banned everything else we could ban"?
 

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The only real 'pit bull' is the APBT, their bite is no stronger than a normal dog, they are not overly powerful animals.. that is media hype. Before you try to defend them, you need to get EDUCATED. I have time and a real passion for the breed, PM me with any questions you have.

Many people mislabel other breeds as 'pit bulls', so much so that 'pit bull' is now being used for any dog that even looks bully... 'pit bull' itself is NOT a breed, but the shortened name of the APBT..

Watch these to get started on the very basics..

(I realize that I call the dogs in this video "pit bulls", even though most are mutts and mix bull breeds, but the general public doesn't know any better so I just tried to educate them a little at a time)
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
The only real 'pit bull' is the APBT, their bite is no stronger than a normal dog, they are not overly powerful animals.. that is media hype. Before you try to defend them, you need to get EDUCATED. I have time and a real passion for the breed, PM me with any questions you have.

Many people mislabel other breeds as 'pit bulls', so much so that 'pit bull' is now being used for any dog that even looks bully... 'pit bull' itself is NOT a breed, but the shortened name of the APBT..

Watch these to get started on the very basics..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zKTDS9psIcE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RsTixlL7Z3k&feature=channel
APBTlove,

When I get home I will watch these, but I ( with out looking at the video's ) am more worried now then before.. If they dont have the Pitbull name to go after, then they might as well sum it up as any large breed..
 

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APBTlove,

When I get home I will watch these, but I ( with out looking at the video's ) am more worried now then before.. If they dont have the Pitbull name to go after, then they might as well sum it up as any large breed..
They will. I have heard stories of pure bred labs being taken because they looked pit bull enough... They will go for any dog they don't understand or have heard bad things about.

And I meant it, PM me a huge list of questions and I will go through and answer every one of them as best I can.

When they ban "pit bulls" they usually add a list of breeds under 'pit bull', like AMerican Staff, APBT, SBT, American Bulldog ect.
 

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Also, bite force varies with the dog.. And generally the size of the dog.

Yeah, the guys in this video are ignorant...

Here is an APBT (mix?) of a friend's, she's probably -40 pounds at the most and is the general size of an APBT, I can pick her up under one arm...




And my average GSD... at about 85 pounds.



And pit bull dogs were never, ever breed for guard work. It's a rare APBT who will actually guard it's home... Most will bark, then go into a fit of wiggling and happiness at a stranger coming in and then help them carry your things out! lol
 

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pitbull-chat.com is a good forum to go check out as well too. They should be able to help you with any questions you may have
 

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As for pit bulls guarding, well, my brother's neighbor's home was broken into. The shep was in a crate. The pit was left free in the house. When he got home his pit was outside in his yard. There was blood everywhere, inside on the couch, and a trail outside. The dog DID guard the home.

I think that what a dog is originally bred to do, will play a part in what they will be likely to do if they become extremely popular, bred poorly and raised by incompetent or abusive owners.

For example, Labs have been at the top of the list in popularity for years, every month, they may have three times the litters/dogs registerred than the next runner up, say GSDs. And while bites from labs have increased with their popularity, I doubt they will ever catch up with GSDs and other breeds whose orginal purposes and current purpose includes an element of aggression.

Labs are used for hunting. But they are never expected to actually KILL anything. In fact, bird dogs in general are often bred for their "soft mouth" which allows them to retrieve a living bird and deliver it still alive to its handler. Not sure if labs have the soft mouth, but how different is this than breeding for a dog who is "game" in the pit or who will go go go against the sleeve?

Anything with teeth can bite. Larger dogs are more likely to have more power in their bites, even if they may not be as likely to bite. And questionable breeding practices will cause instability with nerve and possibly other problems that can increase aggression and possibly cause rage disorders.

By and far the most biting occurs when an animal is afraid, not dominant, or stubborn, or bad. So when dogs are produced with weak nerves, fearfulness, severe shyness, phobias, etc., these dogs are going to be very likely to bite people. I would imagine that dogs whose breeding makes their skulls mishapen or too small, would increase in aggression as the brain is affected.

For dogs that have been bred away from aggression for centuries such as bird dogs, to be increasing in aggression due to bad breeding practices, people should stand up and take notice.

For dogs that have been bred for aggressiveness of any type, their breeders should be all the more careful where they are letting their pups go.

The host of breeds that people lump together as pit bulls, and other dogs bred specifically for blood sports like dog fighting and bull baiting, these dogs have several marks against them. 1, they have been bred for aggression and persistance -- they mixed the terrier with the bull dog to make a dog that would not stop. 2, they are extremely popular and have been bred unscroupulously. 3, they have gotten a reputation for being strong, fearsome dogs, and have been trained to guard, and protect as well as being highly desired by people who want BAD dogs. And 4, people call anything with four legs and teeth a pit bull, so sometimes they are blamed for bites that did not come from any bully breed.

At the same time, you could probably put GSDs in all of those categories as well. GSDs are sometimes blamed for bites committed by anything with pointy ears and teeth.

And yes, once your munincipality has success with getting a breed or breeds banned, they may go to town on other interesting breeds. Or, they may start out with trying to ban pit bulls and their mixes and look alikes, and before they have the bill through, it includes many more breeds.

I think that all people who own dogs should be aware and fight the banning of breeds. Because it affects us all. But I also think that dog owners need to do something to curb the number of incidents. Because in your place you have two incidents and people want to ban a bunch of dogs. Unfortunately, I have no answers on how we can curb the incidents. We ourselves, socialize and train our dogs, and keep them contained. But we cannot force others to do the same.

Another tactic is to do a tally of deaths and serious injuries from other things like bicycles or swimming pools and ask if they are going to ban these next week. Actually, dogs seriously injuring or killing people is still very rare.
 
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