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@selzer I thought you've posted stories of people misreading your pups and unnecessarily resorting to prongs and ecollars due to what the owners "percieved" as aggression or dominance? People can and do end up with dogs beyond their capabilities and from what little has been posted it's certainly possible here.
Yes, people do misread puppies. Usually serious human aggression is not an issue. Not that young. Has anyone suggested going back to the breeder on this one?
 

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Leash frustration can easily appear as human aggression. That is created and caused by the owner / handler.

Suspicion in a pup can be often be seen in a pup a few weeks old and it not considered abnormal in this breed. Remember, the standard says to guard and protect, suspicion and aggression comes with the territory.

Just because YOU don't like or want a puppy that shows signs of HA at 4 months does not mean that the puppy has bad character or bad temperament. It simply means that such a puppy is not your cup of tea.

Management should be practiced until reliable training is in place, that is on the owner. Choice of trainers is on the owner.

A mismatched GSD of good character with an owner that was looking for a sable Golden Retriever will never win its owner over at any age.

Just thought I would mention I recently saw a well bred litter advertised for sale where the breeder made a point of the puppies growling at the breeder when handled and they don't even have their eyes open yet. Do you think you can assess if a puppy has bad nerves at that age? I doubt it.

An owner can throw the towel in any time they want when a dog is not a good match or they simply tire of it. That still doesn't mean you kill off the dog.
The bolded is total horse manure. Before the eyes open, we are talking 10 days old. At ten days old a puppy is a drinking/pooping machine. They do not growl at their owners. I would seriously consider the credentials of any breeder who touted their puppies for this.

ATTACK of the killer baby-puppies!!! Must be the sequel to Attack of the killer bunny rabbits -- I actually watched that movie.
 

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The bolded is total horse manure. Before the eyes open, we are talking 10 days old. At ten days old a puppy is a drinking/pooping machine. They do not growl at their owners. I would seriously consider the credentials of any breeder who touted their puppies for this.
I would be less likely to question the credentials of an experienced working line breeder over that of somebody who is not familiar with them.
 

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I have never had a dog that has had aggression toward people since four months old, that it explodes if someone starts to approach, that requires tons of management and has been to several trainers. That isn't normal. And a dog that hasn't calmed down in 4 years? But as I have said, I haven't evaluated the dog. The owner has lived with the dog and is considering euthanasia. My guess is that the dog is beyond normal management/training/leadership. My guess is that he is stressing his owner out, seriously.
But it IS possible that the 4 month old was just a regular land shark and it was mistakenly thought of as aggressive.
 

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This happens every time someone comes on here with this question. Often, they are generally only asking because they want to hear it is OK to do what they have already decided to do.

Then everyone starts disagreeing on criteria, and the OP generally never comes back. They last looked at the forum 3 days ago. It was a weekend though.

You can't possibly read a post and know what the OP is leaving out, if they really even know what aggression means as opposed to bratiness, landsharking.

When I had issues, and I did ultimately have to PTS, I didn't come here to ask opinions first. Not because I don't value the experienced people's opinions here, but because I did not expect anyone who was qualified to say anything to give an answer. Someone qualified to give an answer knows darn well they need to know the dog and the owner to do so.

In my situation, breed specific trainers, vets, and even a K9 handler from DHS told me what I already knew, and commended me for trying. OP- if you come back, that is the only right way to go. Listen to the trainers and vets.

If anyone does come across a dog that would make a good aggressive working dog for an experienced handler, but is simply just way too much for a casual inexperienced owner- check out Throw Away Dogs on FB. They specialize in rescuing people who bought a Ferrari when they can't even drive a stick shift. The dogs, if they pass, are donated to police departments that can not afford a working K9. They evaluated my dog (like I said I tried everything) and said to (as Jax08 so correctly put it) "release him from his demons."
 

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The OP hasn't been back since the original post. Several posts in the beginning of this thread ask some pointed back round questions and some good recommendations were given with no response from the OP. I don't think we will know what will or has happened with this dog. The OP seems to have run away.

This is typical of how these types of threads seem to go.
 

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This happens every time someone comes on here with this question. Often, they are generally only asking because they want to hear it is OK to do what they have already decided to do.

Then everyone starts disagreeing on criteria, and the OP generally never comes back. They last looked at the forum 3 days ago. It was a weekend though.

You can't possibly read a post and know what the OP is leaving out, if they really even know what aggression means as opposed to bratiness, landsharking.

When I had issues, and I did ultimately have to PTS, I didn't come here to ask opinions first. Not because I don't value the experienced people's opinions here, but because I did not expect anyone who was qualified to say anything to give an answer. Someone qualified to give an answer knows darn well they need to know the dog and the owner to do so.

In my situation, breed specific trainers, vets, and even a K9 handler from DHS told me what I already knew, and commended me for trying. OP- if you come back, that is the only right way to go. Listen to the trainers and vets.

If anyone does come across a dog that would make a good aggressive working dog for an experienced handler, but is simply just way too much for a casual inexperienced owner- check out Throw Away Dogs on FB. They specialize in rescuing people who bought a Ferrari when they can't even drive a stick shift. The dogs, if they pass, are donated to police departments that can not afford a working K9. They evaluated my dog (like I said I tried everything) and said to (as Jax08 so correctly put it) "release him from his demons."
Agree 100%!

The one thing some of us fail to recognize is the bond. GSD's are notorious for struggling with rehoming, for a dog that already has issues this could be a catastrophe. I always said if anything ever happened that forced me to give up the dogs I would have them PTS. Ultimately it is sometimes the kindest decision.
It is also a deeply personal and private choice.
When I had Bear put down I was sure that I could have found him a junk yard to watch over, but I was also crystal clear that somewhere in this dogs future was a bullet. I could not bring myself to let that happen and the option for him was to lock up an 18 month old pup and throw away the key. I weighed the quality of life he would have and what it would do to me and made the best decision I could. He had already mauled someone (thank God wearing a skidoo suit), gone after a child and attacked several dogs. Ropes were a joke and I lacked the size and strength to hold him. I would have been haunted for the rest of his life had I turned him over to someone else. We all know the horror that awaits these dogs in the wrong hands, and people lie all the time.
Whatever the outcome here, I wish the OP and the dog peace.
 

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I have a 4 year old GSD that has had aggression towards people since four months old and severe dog aggression since a year or so. I have been to several trainers but he still requires a ton of management to keep him from going after a person or dog. I am now considering euthanizing him due to the stress of managing him. I guess i just feel like i am doing it out of selfish reasons as i for the most part can keep him from hurting someone it is just very stressful and i worry that if i slip up someone gets hurt. I have to work to avoid strangers and dogs when we are out. If they ignore him he'll ignore them but if a dog or person looks like they plan to approach us he explodes and no amount of corrections or desensitization has gotten rid of this behavior. I feel like we've finally hit a wall and this is just as good as he is capable of behaving with his weak nerves. He is also not able to be loose in the house due to my fear that he will bite someone as he will charge the door and bark/growl whenever someone enters even if he knows them and he is often confined to a room or his crate.

At what point is it acceptable to euthanize an aggressive dog that is otherwise physically healthy? He doesn't have a bite record but that is almost solely due to management.
IMHO, I wouldn't want to wait until someone has actually been bitten, especially a young, unsuspecting child; however, if I was in your situation (based only on what you have shared), I would muzzle the dog at all times, except at meal time, and find a trainer/expert on aggressive dogs and work with them to teach your dog to have more restraint with new people/animals.

I notice in your photos of the dog, he is wearing a K9 "vest"... was he being trained at any point to be aggressive or "K9 like"?
 

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If anyone does come across a dog that would make a good aggressive working dog for an experienced handler, but is simply just way too much for a casual inexperienced owner- check out Throw Away Dogs on FB. They specialize in rescuing people who bought a Ferrari when they can't even drive a stick shift. The dogs, if they pass, are donated to police departments that can not afford a working K9. They evaluated my dog (like I said I tried everything) and said to (as Jax08 so correctly put it) "release him from his demons."
Nice constructive option!
 

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I would seek a trainer.

My 5 1/2 month old GSD sees a professional training every week for 2-3 hours that specializes with Pit Bulls, Rots and GSDs.
He is sweet as can be around me, but barks at people he does not know.

I had an aggressive Terrier breed that would try to bite people. I would always have to ask people to not pet him.
The point that I am making is that he lived a good life, never actually bit anyone and made it to over 15.
 

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I would be less likely to question the credentials of an experienced working line breeder over that of somebody who is not familiar with them.
German Shepherds are German Shepherds. They all go back to the same dogs. And I have seen more 10 day old puppies than you have, or your buddy Cloudbump, probably put together. I notice none of the working line breeders that are on this site are talking about how their puppies growl at their owners before their eyes open. Whatever, I have a puppy to feed. You have fun believing that 4 month old puppies should go berzerk when a human approaches, and that 10 day old puppies growl at their owners. This dog is 4 years old now, and its owner knows best whether the dog needs to be put down or not. They probably know they are over their head and are hoping someone will come out and offer to take the dog off their hands. Since that didn't happen, my guess is that whatever we say about it here, the decision is probably already made, maybe already done.
 

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I agree. There's also a human at the other end of the leash that is part of the equation, what kind of handling has this dog had?
This is soooo important before making a decision. Do you know how many times a person has brought a dog to me that was dog aggressive or dog vicious ( for the inexperienced or drama folks), and they are basing this on the behavior of the dog when ON leash and passing or approaching another dog??? Dog wasn’t aggressive at all, but was mishandled and when owners educated, they saw completely different results. But to these people the dog was really dog aggressive, ( and to many on the internet that have limited experiences with this situation). Maybe this dog is dog aggressive, maybe it isn’t, but before you euthanize the dog have it evaluated by working dog trainers and not pet trainers...they can look at the same traits and come to far different conclusions. The dog deserves that opportunity!
 

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These threads always end this way... a contest between members here...".I know more than you know-I know more than you....Sing it with me now"
The OP here... or an op in any one of the many threads here involving euthanizing-- their aggressive dog--their dog they can't handle--their dog who may bite--their dog that's causing them stress---They've already made their minds up--It's a done deal folks. OPs like this one are simply looking for support/validation for THEMSELVES....and they'll get that support here....which side of the fence an individual member falls on in a particular thread varies (as others said depending on date and how the wind is blowing)....the OP then just disappears--never to be heard from again.

There are members here who say they can relate because they've been there before...well folks-- taking on a adult shelter/rescue dog... where you don't know squat about it's history/background... is NOT the same as an OP having a 4 year old aggressive dog that's too stressful for them...a dog which they've owned since a puppy and been a member on this forum... I'm sure this "Monster" just happened over night....this was the 3rd thread the op started .....No behavioral questions during those 4 years ???.....Really???

I've sat and held dogs...and watched while a needle goes in their leg-- watched while the light slowly goes out of the eyes that trusted me all their lives....BUT only when time/old age or disease had caught up with us....so it's sacred subject for me--just to be clear here I've owned 2 dogs that the "experts " thought would be better off put to sleep at some point in their lives....It didn't happen....Why didn't it happen ???----Because I managed the dogs and their situations every day.....either dog would die for me in the right situation and not blink an eye!!.. and I was not about to give them any less than they'd give me.
 

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German Shepherds are German Shepherds. They all go back to the same dogs. And I have seen more 10 day old puppies than you have, or your buddy Cloudbump, probably put together. I notice none of the working line breeders that are on this site are talking about how their puppies growl at their owners before their eyes open. Whatever, I have a puppy to feed. You have fun believing that 4 month old puppies should go berzerk when a human approaches, and that 10 day old puppies growl at their owners. This dog is 4 years old now, and its owner knows best whether the dog needs to be put down or not. They probably know they are over their head and are hoping someone will come out and offer to take the dog off their hands. Since that didn't happen, my guess is that whatever we say about it here, the decision is probably already made, maybe already done.
Reputable breeders know there are variations between lines and between pups in a litter. There is a good reason that a breeder should pick a pup to match to an individual. A German Shepherd is not just a German Shepherd. Some in a litter may be suitable for police work, some for sport, some for therapy dogs, and more. A good breeder knows that not all GSDs are cut from the same cloth.

You have bred working line German Shepherds and have had many in your hands? We should chat working dogs some day! I would love to hear your personal experiences with your working line GSDs. Having owned pet lines and even show lines in addition to my working lines, I know there can be a massive difference between the lines.

I don't have 4 month old puppies that go berserk when somebody approaches them although I have seen some leash reactivity in other peoples dogs. Is "early berserk" what your dogs produce?

You think this dog's owners know best whether to kill off their dog or not because they might be in over their head? If not anything else, with all the threads started on here about people wanting to kill off their dogs because they are in over their heads, please tell why are you always a forerunner in the lynch mob crying the dog is not wired right, off with its head?

Last but not least, this is not about you, your experience, or your lack thereof, nor is this about a me or Cloud. How about contributing something constructive instead of personal attacks before this dog gets killed through no fault of its own?
 

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German Shepherds are German Shepherds. They all go back to the same dogs. And I have seen more 10 day old puppies than you have, or your buddy Cloudbump, probably put together. I notice none of the working line breeders that are on this site are talking about how their puppies growl at their owners before their eyes open. Whatever, I have a puppy to feed. You have fun believing that 4 month old puppies should go berzerk when a human approaches, and that 10 day old puppies growl at their owners. This dog is 4 years old now, and its owner knows best whether the dog needs to be put down or not. They probably know they are over their head and are hoping someone will come out and offer to take the dog off their hands. Since that didn't happen, my guess is that whatever we say about it here, the decision is probably already made, maybe already done.
I dont know why everything has to turn into a personal attack?
 
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