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Re: PITIFUL NO NAME WGSD FEMALE - WARNER ROBBINS -

In an ideal world, lessons are learned. I hope some have been today.

dd
 

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Re: PITIFUL NO NAME WGSD FEMALE - WARNER ROBBINS -

I am very sorry for this dog. Seeing the pictures of her so sad make me very sad too. I do think that Zack had good intentions and that he truly cares about dogs. To be honest, I don't think that dog had a chance, Zack or no Zack. I agree that the eval was not done correctly but I think most people would never have even gone in there with the dog. I have seen that type of dog in shelters before and with that level of fear it is almost impossible to do a temp test. If there is a really patient worker there they can sometimes get the dog to trust them enough to get them out but most times it's a catch pole that's used for the dog and then they are pts. In those rural shelters those kind of dogs really don't have a chance. Again, I don't support the methods used and I'm sorry this dog had to be so scared on her last day of life.

I agree that constructive criticism is a much better tool here. Why not try to work with Zach instead of against him?
 

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Re: PITIFUL NO NAME WGSD FEMALE - WARNER ROBBINS -

Conclusions:

I hate to use the words "not adoptable", but this dog should not be approached or handled by anyone except those with experience in extreme fear aggression.

prey drive - ???

pack drive - little to none

defense drive - extremely high. Biting, growling, snapping, and complete loss of control

This dog should not go to a family with kids, cats, or other dogs. If someone wants to adopted this dog, you have read my report and you know 100% what you are getting into. Please do not go get this dog and then blame me or my eval because you cannot handle her.

There is a chance this dog could be rehabed, but it would be weeks or months. Good luck and God bless if you want her.

Also, this dog is NOT a German Shepherd or even a German Shepherd mix. She is 30-35 lbs and more than likely a Shiba Inu mix.


the above was a quote from his blog... I seen he wrote there IS a chance the dog could be rehabbed, but it would be weeks or months. I am sorry that the shelter felt that was a reason to let her go, I surely dont see that statement as a death sentence.
 

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Re: PITIFUL NO NAME WGSD FEMALE - WARNER ROBBINS -

have been sitting back the last few days watching this thread and that of the beautiful sable.

While this Urgent section of the board has done many wonderful things....

This thread is a perfect example of how dangerous this board can be. Whether or not, the "evaluator" or the person/people that found him to "evaluate" 2 GSDs (one clearly scared and the other more than likely a "worker"), was good intentioned is not the point.

This was an unknown evaluator and there were Red Flags from the start and many of us who have been on this board for years - know them by now.

There is a reason we ask for solid evaluations before we pull. There is a reason we have a contact base for people we have worked with in the past and trust. It is not always a perfect system, but it is a system.

I am not a qualified evaluater, but I know a little about GSDs and GSDs in shelters. I would have NEVER used such a "technique" (in fact I would not have been the one evaling these two), and you can bet I would never work with anyone that did and if I had the misfortune of choosing someone who did - that would be the one and only time.

This girl just paid the price with her life. Pretty big calculation error - no matter how well intentioned one might be.

Now, whether or not that would have been the ultimate decision anyhow, I do not know. What I do know, is she was gassed and before that she was scared and before that she was scared and wondering why the he __ __ she was there.

Members of this board who plead for help for a dog, I understand you are doing so because you have empathy and care. However, I implore you to let the people who have a track record do the hard work and to only offer donations to proven rescues or directly to a vet for care of a dog.

The best intentions can have very sad consequences.

Thank you for letting me add my two cents.
 

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Re: PITIFUL NO NAME WGSD FEMALE - WARNER ROBBINS -

"She bit him" -

Or better said - he forced her to defend herself, and she bit him.

Well said, Darcy.

dd
 

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Re: PITIFUL NO NAME WGSD FEMALE - WARNER ROBBINS -

Originally Posted By: dd"She bit him" -

Or better said - he forced her to defend herself, and she bit him.

Well said, Darcy.

dd
Exactly. I got blocked from the board before I finished! But that was the bottom line.

I am the first to say that shelters should not pass dogs on to the general public who are at high risk to hurt people (or other animals even) through uncontrollable aggression. But this dog was seriously threatened and was responding a defensive manner. Please stop, please don't, is what she was saying.

Reading this thread made me SO grateful that whoever got Anna out of the shelter she was in didn't do these things to her. She has never (knock wood) made a move to bite, but some of those moves sounded much like hers. This is bothering me to no end.

Darcy that is an excellent post.
 

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Re: PITIFUL NO NAME WGSD FEMALE - WARNER ROBBINS -

I agree with what has been said by you Darcy, and I guess I can keep asking myself over and over again why shelters make the choices they do until I am blue in the face... I get the point she bit him- but I also get the fact that she was terrified and did so as a result of probably thinking she was defending herself. Again, asking myself over and over again, why didnt the shelter see she was just scared is a pointless question... I am starting to see what a bite does on a dogs record- even when it isnt their fault they pay they price, and that is what breaks my heart.
 

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Re: PITIFUL NO NAME WGSD FEMALE - WARNER ROBBINS -

I agree that this dog had every right to bite him and I would have bitten him myself had I been that scared and forced into submission. Gassing is a horrible way to die and living as she was was also horrible. For liability reasons, most shelters would never have let anyone go in there with that particular dog and certainly wouldn't have let anyone take the dog out of her enclosure.

The point is that this dog is now dead and it would be great if everyone could learn some very important lessons, INCLUDING ZACH. It would be great if he could learn that he should have never attempted to take her out of her safety zone against her own free will. That's just for starters.

He's young and he loves dogs. He obviously is using some outdated techniques that endanger the dog and himself and it would be great if we could use this dog's case to help educate him so that other dogs don't suffer in the future. Because these rural Georgia shelters will continue to be desperate for help and Zach will continue to evaluate and help place dogs. So why not try to help?

And if not Zach, then someone else. How about we start a thread, in this dog's memory (the poor girl never even got a name) on how to do a proper evaluation of a shelter dog? And who is qualified, when not to approach a dog, etc., etc.
 

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Re: PITIFUL NO NAME WGSD FEMALE - WARNER ROBBINS -

alot of great points and starting places to offer help/educate-----introduced myself on the introduction forum
 

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Re: PITIFUL NO NAME WGSD FEMALE - WARNER ROBBINS -

Originally Posted By: BowWowMeow

How about we start a thread, in this dog's memory (the poor girl never even got a name) on how to do a proper evaluation of a shelter dog? And who is qualified, when not to approach a dog, etc., etc.
Excellent Idea and it would be great if it was a sticky in the Rescue section
 

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Re: PITIFUL NO NAME WGSD FEMALE - WARNER ROBBINS -

Darcy - great post! Thank you.

Originally Posted By: BowWowMeowHow about we start a thread, in this dog's memory (the poor girl never even got a name) on how to do a proper evaluation of a shelter dog? And who is qualified, when not to approach a dog, etc., etc.
That's an excellent idea and a very helpful one I think.
 

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Re: PITIFUL NO NAME WGSD FEMALE - WARNER ROBBINS -

my body is gone,but i am always here
in everything you see,feel and hear
my spirit is free,but i will never depart
as long as you keep me alive within your heart

regardless of if we ever met her or not she touched our hearts/life she is alive in our hearts. lets make her death be a positve thing,instead of pain.in memory of her,lets save another today..........
 

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Re: PITIFUL NO NAME WGSD FEMALE - WARNER ROBBINS -

I think we're going to see lots of different opinions - just like we do with training techniques and everything else, but maybe that's not a bad thing. At least it would be a great resource for people to check out when they are faced with situations like this.

Quote:I can keep asking myself over and over again why shelters make the choices they do until I am blue in the face...
I can totally see why the shelter made the call they did, even if she hadn't bitten him. This is a shelter where happy, healthy, friendly dogs are routinely euthanized. That's the case of most of the shelters I work with. Purebreds are put down, healthy puppies die every day. You name it... most of the dogs don't get out.

Here is a dog who was living each moment of her life in ****, each second completely terrified. Could she have been rehabilitated in an experienced home? Quite possibly. The dog in my avatar, my Amazing Grace, was like this poor baby when I found her. She tried to take my arm off when I reached into her kennel. She was evaluated by an extremely well known "expert" as part of a workshop on dealing with aggressive dogs in the shelter environment, and found to be unfixably fear aggressive and recommended for euthanasia. Which gets back to my statement about the subjective nature of evaluation... But I digress - my point is that possibly this little girl could have been saved but no one had stepped up to take her, no transport existed, we had no local contacts. In all likelihood, regardless of the evaluation, she was going to get put down and the shelter chose to do it sooner rather than later.

I am glad she's no longer suffering. I am sorry her last time was so scary. I hope that we can take her life and learn from it to help the next poor soul that finds themselves afraid and alone and protecting themselves the only way they know how.
 

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Re: PITIFUL NO NAME WGSD FEMALE - WARNER ROBBINS -

Actually there were offers of help and transport for this girl whether she was a GSD or not. We were waiting for the temp test to see what had to be done and had already talked with a volunteer about pulling her.
 

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Re: PITIFUL NO NAME WGSD FEMALE - WARNER ROBBINS -

That is sad to hear. I think pupresq makes some excellent points, but I wanted to point to the example of Anna Banana. I remember posting her - it must be four years ago now? - and thinking no one is ever going to want this dog: she can't stand to be touched and she poops herself if you look at her wrong. And yet - she ended up getting TWO excellent foster moms, and a permanent home, and look at her today! Sometimes it is the most pitiful dog at the shelter that gets out, just because it IS the most pitiful.

dd
 
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