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I do not remember, but frankly I doubt it. My hunch is I used the collar immeditaly and first used the nick button to get him to not go after my outboard motor when started. My second use has been not to chase bikes riders, joggers, etc. Timber is fine 99% of the time, but every now and then he takes off and only the E-Collar works.
 

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I am new to this board/web site- as I was looking for some help with my GS.
He's 15 mos old- and has had some training... he behaves MUCH better now that we had him fixed too.

My BIGGEST problem is his dog to dog agression. Our next door neighbor just got Black Lab puppy- and Kaiser goes CRAZY when he sees her.
Our walks are great until we encounter another dog. I'm only 5 feet 2 inches tall, and 110 pounds, and this gets really hard to control out on walks. Any advice? I'm very frustrated, and also afraid someone is going to get hurt.

I had "thought" about shock collars, but I am not done reading up on them either.

Any help/advice would be awesome.

Thanks....
 

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Get a prong collar, learn how to use it (it's not the most user friendly), sign up for training classes where the trainer is experienced in several methods, tools, and is not restrictive on methods and tools, and also check out this link:

http://www.germanshepherds.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=131839&page=1#Post131839
Leadership information. It sounds like your dog thinks HE'S boss- YOU should be boss. It's time to dethrone him and become the alpha. I wouldn't get the e-collar until you get a better handle on him (and have more experience in training and dog behavior) unless you can find a trainer who is very knowledgeable on e-collars, not just the aversion method of training w/ e-collars, either.

Welcome to the forum! It would be best for you to start a new topic on this issue. This is an old topic and is more of a round table discussion; your problems could get lost in this post. Best to start your own in the Training or Behavior forum!
 

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I'm just now seeing this thread


my


after reading this through, it seems we need to agree on a premiss before reaching a conclusion - on e-collars (and other issues we 'debate').

e-collars as a training device or e-collars as a negative force...

What I mean is - training presupposes we agree that we are trying to shape behavior not simply slam the dog for bad behavior.

If we are seeking to 'shape,' then I suggest the dog must first understand what you are trying to communicate. I've never had one that speaks English.


Jerking the heck out of a dog with prong or choke or even giving treats with no timing doesn't work . Dog first has to understand command before correction or be rewarded with timing that says 'oh yeah!'

I've used treats, choke chain (I'm that old), prongs and the e-collar and think each has their time and place when used correctly on a given dog.

Treats are always yummy and loved, <u>but</u> one can end up with a demanding dog that still doesn't comply with command if doled out without timing.

I won't use a choke any longer - believe the info on hurting the trachea.

I have and do use a prong (and know it can be fit incorrectly and jerked too harshly).

I have recently learned about the e-collar (and thank you Lou - he spent time on the phone with me, gratis I might add).

I currently use all of the above and none to exclusion - excepting the choke chain. I believe each has it's place and give the e-collar accolades for having an additional feature - the 'vibrate only' mode.

I successfully use it for long distance recall and it's truly just a 'tap on the shoulder' for Sofie.

I like the e-collar. Like any training tool, I don't think it should be used without guidance.
 

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I prefer a citronella collar as an aversive, and only when absolutely necessary (like we're at a farm and it's best she does not start killing the turkeys). I've got it to the point that the beep alone stops her in her tracks. I believe it must be used for very specific circumstances where training has not been successful, and intense prey drive is something I have not been able to control in her.

I do have an electronic fence at my camp in the country which is basically the same thing only used for a different purpose. It was my only option unfortunately as the terrain is rugged, yet I did not want to have to limit their outdoors time when we are surrounded by hundreds of acres of wilderness. The fence is for their protection and they've been trained to it. Frankly, I still hate the thought of it but it was the only option for their freedom, and they get a warning beep in addition to the flags so they do understand their boundaries and the consequences. This way they have free reign of 3 acres that I could not possibly fence.
 

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I wondered this..............


Would the e-collar be wise to use around our property when we have a e-fence ? I wanted to use it for when the deer are around (they all chase), for when the dogs get too ruff with play, etc, but worry this might mess them up & they think the shock is coming from the fence ?

Thanks
 

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If you are using the e-collar, you need to train them to 'do' something as opposed to 'not do' something. If you just press the button whenever they chase a deer or play too rough they will be confused and you can't predict how they will react. So if you want to do the training, you need to take the time to read up (and if you can, find a very good trainer). Proper use should be low stim, and you will train your dogs to come on command, so that when you feel they are playing too rough, you call them, they come, and you can give your dogs are party (treats, play, whatever) for being such good puppies.
Basically, the e-collar is to be used at low levels (not shocking or painful) as negative reinforcement, not as a punisher. You can use it in conjunction with positive reinforcement training (clicker training, rewards) if you wish (that's what I do).
These two sites do a very good job explaining the basic principles.
http://www.loucastle.com/articles.htm
http://www.dobbsdogs.com/library/
Best read slowly, at leisure, and several times over so that you have a good idea of the training principles involved.
 

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Hi there,
I have been using the e-collar on my GSD for about 2 weeks now and it has helped me tremendously. We did the preliminary training with a professional trainer and am now practicing everyday with it. I would not have used it unless the situation was life threatening. Romy fiercely lunges at cars and my fear is that if he ever gets away he will defenitely be hit by a car.
I had tried everything else before contemplating the e-collar. I used a prong, treats, had him in sit and nothing worked. If his mind was set on lunging he would and my arm would go right with it! It wasn't so much that my arm was getting really beat up, it was the fact that Romy getting hit by a car and being maimed or worse, killed terrified me.
I agree with a lot of the posters above. I only resorted to it because it was a life threatening situation. I would defenitely NOT use it for simple obedience training. The key is to get yourself properly trained on it before you use it on your loved one.
Romy is doing a lot better now. He sometimes still has urges but i correct them immediately and he snaps right out of it. My piece of mind is that if for whatever reason it might be he gets away on the leash and runs off, atleast I will have some kind of controll in getting him back with the command COME! If i were not to use the e-collar i would be completely powerless and a bystander to something dreadful that I could have avoided by using the e-collar.
regards,
Debbie
 

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I don't use shoke collars, I don't have anything against them if that's a persons perferred method, but personally, I think it's a bit harsh, and won't do that to my Girl's...I'll stick to traditional training methods....they seem to get the job done for us.
 

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Interesting topic of debate. Particularly to me at this time, because I intend to use an electronic collar on my 6 month old GSD, and should be receiving it in a day or two. I have used an invisible fence once before with a previous GSD, but never the remote collar. I see a lot of evidence in responses here that the stigma associated to e-collars is very much alive and well. Not unfounded, I'm sure - as many people through either ignorance or cruelty have misused them and continue to do so. However, I don't consider yanking a dog around with a prong collar or choker collar to be exactly a hug and a kiss either. I took my puppy to obedience training and stopped going half way through the paid sessions because I disagree with the "yank him harder and smack him harder" approach.

I agree completely that sound training advice and careful execution is very important - if you can find a good trainer that can provide it. Not everyone has such a trainer available. There are some good materials out there that help with this. I plan to acclimate the pup to the collar for a couple weeks before ever turning it on, and during that time to work hard on the commands I intend to use the collar to reinforce. Because he is young, I intend to be extra careful with its use and my expectations, but a stimulation from a collar is no worse than a leash pop with a prong collar, so long as the dog understands why the stim is occuring.

I want my dog to come when either me or my wife call him - unconditionally and without hesitation. This is the most important thing there is, and can save his life someday. I think you can only go so far with leash and long lead training. The next step will be to teach him boundaries, some permanent and some ad hoc. I want to know that he will stay in my yard, for example, until told he can leave it.

I'm hoping to find as much thought and advice on this topic as possible. The last thing I want to do is a poor job of training. I want a healthy meaningful relationship with my dog for many years to come, and I think the e-collar is among the available tools that, if used properly, can help to ensure that.
 

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I do not own any e-collars, but have done some research on them and formed the opinion that they are a tool and can be effective for certain problems, mostly to get a dog's attention. IMO they should be used as a temporary tool (as should prong collars), not for "the life of the dog." They should be used as a tool, not a lifestyle.
 

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I have gone back or forth on this issue so much. My biggest concern with the E-Collar is so many might use it as a quick fix. On the other hand, to resolve a specific issue it can be helpful.

As I mentioned previously, and was suprised the experts did not, was stick to the nick button.
 

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Originally Posted By: MaggieRoseLeekaslkaos has a good point about not all trainers being 'good'. Why it's important we have to do OUR research on the front end to make sure what we want, and the method we want to use to TRAIN our dog, is the same as what the trainer is doing.

The way I see the e-collar is there are 2 methods it can be used for. As a slamming correction AFTER the dog is doing something wrong (like the bark collar will do, and the way we CAN use a training collar). So say dog gets into trash again, we activate the collar to punish them so they will now avoid the trash can (hopefully). You don't need to read up on how to do this, you don't have to train your dog, this takes no time. Dog does something you don't like, you come down on the e-collar like the Wrath of God. Can end up with a fearful, timid and confused dog who is not sure when/where/how the next time God will again strike them down.

Or the way I prefer, and it seems most of us prefer, to use the collar. To have the dogs as an active participant in the LEARNING process, and the collar is just a tool we can use because there is no leash. THIS METHOD TAKES TIME TIME TIME TIME. And that's why owners mess it up because they instead try to have it be a quick fix, they scan the first page of directions and then immediately start it with their dog. You must already have the MONTHS of previous training in place so your dog absolutely knows the commands (for me it's the 'come' ) and is good in most all situation and when on leash does perfectly! You start at the LOWEST level (the point is not to PUNISH, but to remind them you still have a connection to them) and ONLY raise the level IF THEY CONTINUE TO CHOOSE TO IGNORE YOU. You start with the leash on (and the e-collar) so you can still guide them when they are learning the e-collar thing.

What the e-collar is supposed to do, is remind the dogs to ALWAYS keep one ear on us and still obey us, EVEN WITHOUT THE LEASH. And, when you do this properly, eventually the dogs listen and obey us, off leash, EVEN WITHOUT the e-collar. You may have it on them still, but it's a 'just in case' thing. I rarely if EVER have to activate the collar. And that's the point. NOW my dogs listen to me, keep an eye on me, and obey. It's not about me having to constantly have to remind them by using it. It's that I don't have to use it BECAUSE THEY ARE NOW TRAINED AND PAY ATTENTION TO ME OFF LEASH. And not because they are fearful, or confused. But because, with the help of me reading up, watching the videos, purchasing a good collar (over $200) AND WORKING WITH A GOOD TRAINER, and being consistant consistant consistant, with the training.


MLR you have put into words (AWESOMELY) I might add EXACTLY what I have been TRYING to say on this board for a LONG TIME NOW. MY HAT IS OFF TO YOU!
 

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Originally Posted By: BigDog3American Vet supplies has it for $184 at http://www.americanvetsupply.com/i_024DG-200NCPG_Dogtra+200+NCP+Gold+Collar+1+2+Mile.php

MightyPets has it for $189 with free shipping at
http://www.mightypets.com/product.asp?3=1366

On the Dogtra.com website you can look up dealers and I found well over 50 in the state of Wisconsin. Most of them are some kind chains named Gander Mountain and Mills fleet Farm.

Does that help ?

<M>
I have used the Dogtra 1800, Dogtra200, Dogtra 175 (this one is best suited for small dogs) and my newest is the Dogtra 280. I REALLY LIKE THIS 280! It is a low to medium stim collar with 127 stimulation levels with LCD so you know exactly what stim level your own. Stay away from the 1800 series unless you have alot of E-collar experience and have a hard dog.
 

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I am a dog trainer and use the e-collar in ALOT of my training. The e-collar is the best tool if used correctly. I actually did a demo this evening brought out my Dutch shep Raider did a demo on obedience then bite work. the lady was amazed we go back into her house to talk some more I explain to her how I have Raider under such control with the training w/ the e-collar and she says oh ive read that they are cruel tools. Only someone that has so much ignorance can say that a pinch or choke is more humane than the No limitations method of e-collar training. the e-collar can be used in a positive motivational way. the lady signed up after I did a quick demo with her dog but I am tired of traditional trainers bashing the e-collar because their techniques take so long to get results.
 

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we used one from my trainer to teach pooches not to run up to cars when they come into drive way. It worked
 

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Until I got my newest rescue, a large ten month old GSD, I though the pinch collar was great. A few yelps and problem solved. It worked well on my forever, now 2 1/2 year old Shepherd. However, my rescue dog does not care how much the pronged collar hurts him. He continues to fight it and applies the pressure himself.

I just think each dog is so different, and what works well for one, might not work for another.
 
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