German Shepherds Forum banner

41 - 60 of 157 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,628 Posts
This is going to be ongoing! After reading your posts and gathering more information based on your experience I have also written to Lou Castle for price information.

I am glad that I returned the e-collar that I had, there are many different types for diffent uses and I am not sure if mine was right for the situation. I hope that this thread keeps going, so much to learn.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
130 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,815 Posts
[ QUOTE ]
What is everybody's opinion on Electronic training collars, or e-collars or shock collars, as they're also known? Do you think they're an acceptable training method? In what situation, if any, would you use one on your dog? If you do use one, do you consider it a temporary training tool, or something you will continually use to deal with the problem?

[/ QUOTE ]

i feel e-collars are a training tool that can be very effective if use properly.

i personally used it to stop dakota from digging in the yard including her crazy behavior of kicking dirt, spinning, and barking at it. but other things went into this training as well.

how i used it: i first learned the behavior she displays by watching, watching and more watching what she would do before, just before, just starting, and during. when ever dakota was just about to start i would give her a "no, leave it" and if she continued on with it i would press the botton for about 2 seconds (3rd setting up is where it got her attention, 1 and 2 did nothing) so what to do now? i played with her and played and played. i also never let her out in the yard without me again.

for about 5 days she would get a verbal correction of no leave it and from the e-collar if she started to try to dig or kick. at first a few times when we first went outside. then only once, and then not at all. a few days past and she tried again, but one more vebal correction and e-collar correction and she never did it again. problem solved. and i never had to put the collar on her after about 1 month and she never tried to pick the habit up again. she was happy with the changes and so was i.

i feel you should be there and not the hide and zap thing. the correction should be coming from you and i feel they should know that. i think that helps in the situation where people feel that it can be interpted as a kid or dog giving the correction, i think the verbal correction is key with ecollar training. my thought, no different than prong corrections, other than a different feeling.

my dh zapped himself with it to the highest level the thing would go which i never used more than level 3, this one had 9 settings. and he sad its not bad and he has been zapped by electric a number of times in his field of work.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,168 Posts
My friend uses a shock collar on her Basenji mix, but she felt it was a last resort. She owns a dog store and there are various dogs coming in and out all day, Logan is dog aggressive in SOME cases, and even after training, she finds that she can't follow through with the training sometimes. Usually she doesn't catch him or can't get to him at the right time. So she's using the collar for those cases.

Personally i am glad i don't have to use one. I am not sure that i would want to go that route myself. But i don't knock anyone for trying what they have to try to get the right results. As long as no dog is harmed that is.. and i know that the shock collars are only very mild.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,628 Posts
I was *this* close to ordering one - all I had to do was to send the check to Lou Castle for the order. But in the end thinking it is only used for 2 reasons neither which is primary.

One for training him to be off leash at the beach is not a priority, many other dogs are on leash too. Except for Carmel beach, there are leash laws on other beaches.

The other was cats out front - no matter how high the correction, Buddy will override it to jump the fence to chase the cat. He has a very high prey drive.

He is free in back and in the house - and on a tie-out in the front within a 3 ft cyclone fence for an hour or so a day.

In all other ways, he is well trained and well behaved. I have spent 2 yrs working with him both class and private and I think that we can live with what we got. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/01_smile.gif
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
31 Posts
Electroninc training collars are good if used properly. If someone doesnt know how to use it, dont go buy one and experiment.
I learned to use one while attending a school for pro dog trainers. I had classroom supervision when I learned and would not recomend anyone trying to learn it without having an experienced trainer with him or her.
In normal situations, I do not use an e-collar any stronger than what I would hold in my hand and use on myself. Considering a dogs pain tollerence is 10 times that of a humans, I just dont think a low shock that doesnt hurt me will hurt it. The thing to remember is a correction should be motivational, not eccessive.
I know people who train obedience and retrieving with them. They use a very low shock, if you even want to call it a shock at that level. Again the dosage the dogs get is motivational. And what is motivational for one dog may not be for another.
The younger the puppy when training begins, the less correction it will need. If you train a puppy before problems arise, the less likely it is to develope them later.
I hope I didnt leave anything out. If I did you and curse me for it. lmao
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
213 Posts
I have used an E-Collar for about a year and it is awesome. I do not use any more stimulation than what a pull on a leash would be.
Where it comes in handy is when I go Backpacking in the woods for several nights, and he is off lead most of the time.
I would like to add that it should not be a replacement for solid obedience.
The collar was designed for hunting dogs and if you get a chance to see a video of how it is used to direct a dog at a distance you would be amazed.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
245 Posts
We have a hunting dog that my husband uses an e collar on....we've been debating on whether or not to use it on our GSD......???
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,225 Posts
Lots of hunting dogs have ecollars. Hunters see it not only as a way to control but also as a means to communicate. I think they're excellent if you need to communicate at long distances and if you're working through problems or you have a serious dog (not many will). I am a firm believer of "a tool for every dog and a dog for every tool" and, as someone earlier posted, "use the minimum required to get your dog to take heed."
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,660 Posts
Jordan has an ECollar and it has been a great tool in furthing her training. I think that if one is properly trainined to use one that they can be very beneficial.

Before we got this, she had been in a couple puppy classes and obeidience classes as well and this was recommneded to us by a certified trainer that I completely trust.

I admit I was very skeptical at first and the weekend long seminar/training was very emotional for me. it was emotional because I just want the best for jordan and for her to be a well rounded great dog.

We started last november, and use it a lot...not so much in hitting the button, but having it on when we go out and about. She is great with her recall now (well almost always unless the neighbors are out that she loves) she seems to catch on quicker, and seems pretty happy with all the freedom she thinks she has.

Personally I would never recommend it to anyone who hasn't had their dogs in other classes as they are great ways to bond with your dog and teach you how to work with them.

Nor would I recommend them with someone who is at their wits end in training - they may take it out on the dog and thats not fair.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
1,341 Posts
WOW! I don't think I've ever seen a forum with such a large number of pet owners who were so knowledgeable about the Ecollar! I recognize several of you from private email and some from phone calls.

Most of what follows is for those who oppose the use of the Ecollar because "it causes pain." Most of the Ecollar training that's done in this country is done only after behaviors have been taught with other methods. Those other methods can be +R or balanced training involving corrections.

If done this way then Ecollar training often results in high levels of stim being used to overcome an high of the dog's drives, and may well result in pain being applied to the dog.

I suggest a different way of using the Ecollar that has stim being applied at the level where the dog first perceives it and using it to train new behaviors or acting as if the dog didn't know the behaviors at all! This method begins by finding the level at which the dog first feels the stim. That's called the "working level" and is used for most all of the work that comes later. This stim is applied and the dog is guided or lured into the proper behavior at which time the stim is shut off. The dog learns that his behavior is responsible for making the stim start and stop as well.

The question of pain is a relative one. We all realize that pain is a continuum, ranging from the highest level, "I can't stand than for another second!" to a level of discomfort that's merely uncomfortable, "It's chilly, I think I need a sweater." Using the Ecollar as I do, allows it to be used at the latter level. Articles explaining this can be found on my website.

As far as building a "relationship" with the dog; I think that teaching the recall with the tool is a great way to do that. The dog learns that the mere presence of the handler bring comfort and safety. I like to introduce as little conflict into my training as possible and the Ecollar is the perfect tool for that .
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,415 Posts
I am suprised at all the comments regarding the E-Collar.

Ironically, the two breeders I have dealt with have totally different opinions. The first, and the lady I got Timber from has never used an E-Collar. The second uses the collar and in all all cases advocates using only the nick button, which I don't think anyone has mentioned. The latter does not recmmend continious simulation. Also, he recommendation using the collar to correct one type of behavior at a time.

I have a waterproof DT Systems Collar bought from Fleet Farm.

I have a small boat with an older motor on the river, and everytime I start the thing Timber would attack the motor, and get the fishing rods, run over me, etc. in the process. The only way I could get him to stay put was use the Nick portion of the E-Collar.

Ironically, when it comes to animals Timber will only chase on command and also comes back immediately when I tell him. But when it comes to starting the outboard he would just go wild and the only thing that worked was a Nick from the E-Collar.

I will add a few more things. The E-Collar is no longer needed but when we go fishing I still need to put it on even if the thing is turned off. The dog knows the difference between the E-Collar and his other collars, and reacts accordingly.

Finally, despite using it I am not a big fan of the E-Collar because there is a certain amount of fear in the dog's eyes when the collar is on. So I have never felt completely comfortable with using it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
241 Posts
The biggest problem I have with my dog at the moment is teaching him not to jump on me when he hears the e-collar turned on. He can even hear it from another room! He gets so excited because he knows the e-collar means "Let's go out and train or play or something!"

We went to an obedience class where EVERY dog, all breeds, was wearing the e-collar. All of us still worked on the basics (sit, down, heel, stay etc.) and used the e-collar for positives & negatives, it basically tells the dog "I'm talking to you".

I recently thought my dog wasn't listening to me (he's 2 yrs old) and decided to train with the clicker to get his attention. I did it in conjunction with his e-collar so that he knew the clicker meant the same thing. It worked great except it's LOUD! which is what I wanted because it got his attention but I can't see using the LOUD clicker inside Petsmart or whereever we go with people around. The e-collar works the same as the clicker and is silent so I think we'll go that route.

As far as him not listening, after reviewing Cesar's show and others, it was me not being a leader, yes I'm a pushover LOL. So by showing some tough love (actually I think it was tougher on me than him) and using the e-collar, it showed him I was the leader and he needed to listen whether he wanted to or not.

He's not treat motivated, even if I give him a hotdog he'll spit it out and investigate it first and then eat it, he won't take the treats from anyone at petsmart either. He's ball motivated but I think the squeaky ball is as loud as the noisy clicker and the ball shows him we want to play not sit and stay.

Our e-collar has 3 buttons, low-medium-high. By only using the low button he would ignore whenever he wanted and obey whenever he wanted. I have started using the medium button only and this is only when he doesn't listen to the first verbal command. This lets him know I'm being a leader and he needs to listen. High is only for uncontrollable situations.

So I give A+ to the e-collars as I can now take my dog anywhere and know he'll listen to me, especially when he's off leash!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,173 Posts
Max Baby, its great to hear you have such a positive experience with the E-Collar. I get tried of hearing all the bashing of it and the "Of course they listen, they are afraid of getting shocked".

I train with the E-Collar and have 4 dogs of my own that I have trained with it and would never use anything else.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,083 Posts
Originally Posted By: harmony

Any collar that is being used on a dog is only as good as the trainer training the dog. IMO

I don't think an e-collar is cruel, I think some people that use them are. I could wreck a dog with a flat collar for that matter.
Pretty much sums all training tools up. Very good post.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
2,415 Posts
There have been a lot of posts since this reply, and I do have an E-Collar I use on my GSD when he decides it is fun to chase bike riders. This occurs only about 2% of the time, but the only thing that works is the E-Collar.

However, I have concerns. Unfortunately, the dog knows when the collar is on or off, so if I remove the collar he goes back to his old ways of chasing bike riders every now and then.

My questions is have any of you experienced this. With the collar the dog is perfect, but without he does mis-behave every now and then.
 
41 - 60 of 157 Posts
Top