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I think you can tell alot about a person when it comes to useing an e-collar.

I have seen them used a lot, with good and not so good results, depends on the person useing it and the dog it is being used on, and why!


Any collar that is being used on a dog is only as good as the trainer training the dog. IMO

I don't think an e-collar is cruel, I think some people that use them are. I could wreck a dog with a flat collar for that matter. And, (not that I have tried one on) have you ever rubbed your feet or hands on the carpet and touched something and got a shock? Did you get electricuted? From my understanding that is about equal to the shock a dog gets from an e-collar, different stimulations though.
 

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[ QUOTE ]
And, (not that I have tried one on) have you ever rubbed your feet or hands on the carpet and touched something and got a shock? Did you get electricuted? From my understanding that is about equal to the shock a dog gets from an e-collar, different stimulations though.

[/ QUOTE ]

Actually at low stim it is more like the things a chiropractor puts on your back to loosen the muscles (the electrodes) IF you have had that experience. Tingly. The carpet zap my be what a high stim nick feels like - never tried THAT one.

And at the setting just above being able to detect it. And I have put the darned thing on my neck just behind my ears where the skin is more sensitive than the forearm.
 

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WOW /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/10_eek.gif, alright Nancy /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/18_thumb.gif!

I wonder if they make those to train people? Wouldn't that be a lot easer, lol...
 

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Not sure I would use an e-collar for this without serious one on one guidance or even at all. Bad timing with an ecollar can escalate or create dog agression as the dog associates the stim with the other dog -- there is a real fine balance with this issue.

This, to me, sounds more like a job for desensitization techniques - and you can find plenty about dealing with fearful dogs in other threads.
 

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I am an advocate for e-collars for training in several aspects.

The first, as mentioned many times in this thread, is "crittering" - or any type of livestock chasing. I have horses, and have had a couple incidents where dogs have decided it is great fun to chase the horses. Totally unacceptable. Dogs get kicked. Horses can get hurt.

Another reason I advocate e-collars is that with a particularly strong or hard dog, a physical correction often can increase the fight drive of the dog. I have a dog who would not "out". That dog has some nerve damage caused by physical corrections done by a very strong man. He has had numerous tests and x-rays to determine why he will pick up a back leg and scream in pain - always elicited by a turn and twist of the head - or being driven by a less than physically skillful helper who cannot get him in the pocket and up. An e-collar is actually much safer than physically fighting with the dog. You cannot cause true physiological long term damage to his neck and spine with an e-collar.

I have also used it to correct inappropriate behavior and dominating posturing between 2 females. I will not use it on the two I have now as I do not believe it will help. Only careful monitoring and never letting them interact is safe.

I do not believe in it for force tracking. Or any short cuts in training. Great tool for right reasons and in skilled hands.

Lee
 

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I love the e-collar. I agree what's being said. It's not the tool, it's whose hand it's in.

The main thing I like about the collar is you can apply a correction without getting emotionally involved. There is no place for anger in a correction. Once you add anger, it's punishment and that's not right IMO. It's so much easier for me to repeat a command and press a button calmly then try and yank a long line..
I also have never personally given my dog a stim that I haven't put on myself first /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/05_biggrin.gif Call me crazy, but I want to know what they are getting. However, it's true I haven't put it around my neck..
To repeat it, it doesn't matter what you use, it's how you use it.
 

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I am so glad that this topic is being brought up to date. I ordered one on my trainer's advice last March because of Buddy's jumping the fence. 'Last resort says the directions' and I chickened out.

After a few more jumps I re-ordered it back and it arrived on Monday still sitting in the box. I have done all training possible on Buddy but he will jump! and I have used a tie-out in the front.

I will now take it out of the box, play the video and read it carefully. The man at Tritonics said to call him anytime if I had questions. My trainer is out of state and not available but at least I will have the 7 day 'get used to wearing it' period is over. I am anxious to see other posts how people had positive results. He told me to test it in my hand to know how it feels.

~Anne
 

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You will be using it when you are out WITH Buddy, right? So you aren't actually training him not to jump the fence. But to 'come' when he runs to it and before he jumps over, right?

To be out with the dog, and train a 100% reliable 'come' is an amazing thing. REALLY make sure you read the directions, watch the video, do NOT make the dog 'collar smart' (means that collar is on him 100% of the time every time he's outdoors for MONTHS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

These sites are a must for you to read:

http://www.dobbsdogs.com/library/obedience/rffintro.html

http://www.dobbsdogs.com/library/obedience/rffstart.html

http://www.dobbsdogs.com/library/obedience/rffcome.html

http://www.uwsp.edu/psych/dog/obed.htm#elec (has all the articles).

IF you do this right, truly understand the philosophy and are absolutely consistant. The point is your dog 'gets it' so quickly you RARELY have to activate the collar AT ALL or for more than a brief instance. And that's why/when the collar is such a 'miracle'. Not because you ARE using it all the time, but because you don't have to.
 

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I am not a fan and never will be, I cannot see the point. I have never met a dog as difficult as my own and if I can get her trained to the point she is now w/o the use of such a device than I believe most people could train w/o it.I suppose there are very rare cases when it could be used as a last resort, I would never consider it.
 

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I do not condemn them by any means. There are many testimonials of wonderful success with them.

Buddy has been OB training for two years since I adopted this 'stray' at the shelter. He has done exceptionally well except to jump the fence after a cat or some other lure that might walk by. Solution: A tie-out (supervised!) in the front yard, free in the house and free in the back.

When dog walkers pass by after work, close the front door!
He seems to be mellowing out now and getting my msg!

Last night was interesting - he is allowed to carry my slippers around since he no longer chews them. But his saliva can soak them and I was ready to wear them last night.
He did not want me to have it and gave me the 'look'. In the past I would have argued with a NO but followed Milan's teaching. I sat down and held one end of the slipper with his holding the other until he gave in after about five minutes. No pulling, arguing, I was patient and waited him out. It was great!! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/34_rotflmao.gif

He listened for me in my gf's woodsy back yard on Friday and checked back for me! YAY! But we both agreed that he would tolerate the shock for the chase of a cat! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/10_eek.gif

I would not let him run free in the woods without fence or on the beach. Not all other dogs running off leash are well mannered anyway so our situation does not warrant the e-collar. /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/24_hello.gif
 

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I had put a call into my K-9 Trainer leaving a message early last week asking if he does work with e-collars. Seeing this on his site now I can figure why he did not return my call!

[ QUOTE ]
E-Collars should only be used in extreme cases of disobedience and should never be used when there is aggression towards other animals or people. An E-Collar is a last resort training effort and never a foundational or fundamental tool for proper training. In the area of compulsion, a good trainer should always start with the lesser and build up to the greater.

We believe that the focus of training should be to break the will of the dog not the spirit!

[/ QUOTE ]
 

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After this last post, I received an email from the K9 trainer's wife. The instructor does indeed work with e-collars and they tried to call me but did not get my answering machine!

They were going to set up a private session at my home on Friday (from out of town) but I informed them that I had returned the collar.

There are not enough problems/lures/etc., to work with other than an occasional cat or a loose dog but he does not fight. Watching his body language and a correction if he starts to jump will do for now. It would have needed more than 1 single private session for the e-collar training. At 150.00 a pop! wow! /ubbthreads/images/graemlins/10_eek.gif
 

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We use electronic collars when walking / hiking for distance control and safety issues. There's lots of livestock around us and the collars are always there on a long walk just in case. Collars are much preferred to someone shooting one of my dogs on suspicion if they did happen to take off. That said, I DO NOT agree with using a shock collar if you're not educated on the use of one, and I've never used one for basic obedience. That's a no-brainer. Any training method is only as good or as humane as the trainer.
 

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This is sort of OT but I decided to have the K-9 trainer come to my house on Friday morning and work with Buddy sans the e-collar. (as I mentioned, I have returned it)

Having to set up lures to get Buddy to jump the fence when overall it is quiet will be the challenge! A tad pricey for one hour but hopefully I will learn and gain from it and so will Buddy.
 

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*steps into the frying pan*

Ditto to everything MaggieRoseLee said

I think a lot of people are stuck with a picture in their mind ... of a dog with an ecollar on, an owner pushing the button yelling NO! NO! NO! while the dog cringes and jerks in pain and/or fear.

It's not like that folks ... it's all in HOW you use the collar .... I am not saying that there aren't some totally irresponsible or reckless owners out there that don't abuse the power of the ecollar, but if you understand the philosophy of how to use it positively it is really awesome to see them 'get it' ... and trust me, they get it quickly (as all GSD's do anyway) ... with massive tail wagging and looking for more !

On the other hand, if you use the collar as a negative punishment tool when they do something wrong or you want to stop them from doing something, especially aggression, it will go wrong ... that is almost guaranteed.

We use the Dogtra 200NCP Gold with Asa ... only after an hour in-home session with the trainer, where he showed US how to use it correctly first. Then three more in-home sessions with the trainer and Asa and us. the trainer is coming over next week for free .. to check on Asa and to fine tune our training. We also have an option to pay a few more dollars and can go to as many of his training classes at the local park as we want ... for the life of the dog. For free.
 
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