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Discussion Starter #1
Hi everyone,

I need recommendations, please.

I am in need of an e-collar. This will not be used very often. I need it to limit my dog's barking at certain times. I do not want the bark limiter, because as I understand it, those work automatically. I want something I can control.

Thank you,

Carolyn
 

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Yes, please visit Lou Castle's website. You can also e-mail him with questions and for advice. He is VERY good about providing complete and honest answers.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Thanks for the information. I'll read it.

Della times her barking. She barks if I am upstairs in order to get me to come DOWNSTAIRS. She stops the minute she hears em coming. I've tried ignoring it - that doesn't work. She is a very persistent dog. (Driven),

I don't intend to use this on ALL her training, just for instances where I need to "keep her in check" at a distance.

The thing with this dog is, she times it. She does it when she KNOWS I don't have the time to apply certain techniques.

Bones and Kongs don't work because she is barking to come along for the ride.

She doesn't bark throughout the day or not. It is just that WHEN she DECIDES to BARK - she doesn't give up.

I don't want the neighbors to complain.
 

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Is she always barking when you are home? Why not just keep her in the room with you so you can just use a verbal if she barks?
 

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Discussion Starter #7
She does it when I am going for my morning errands. I normally take her. She starts barking wants a move the car out.

She will also bark if I am upstairs. She stops as soon as she hears me coming because she wants me to come to her.

I do have her with me - but hse needs to have her own "alone" time.
 

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I'm still not seeing this as a problem that would need an e-collar solution. I use my e-collar in conjunction with my other training. To either fine hone a behavior my dog knows already. Or to get some control when I don't have the opportunity to have a leash on my dog (off leashed hikes in the woods).

From what you have described, it just sounds like your dog has learned he's the boss and can control your behaviors in the house with his barking. I'd forget about spending the $200 plus on an e-collar and instead invest in some great dog classes to help shift the scales back in your favor. As in 'you are the boss and will be in charge'.

I've always found if what I'm doing (and been doing) is not only improving the situation but it's getting worse............. I need HELP and I go get it. From people that have raised/trained hundreds of dogs to my mere 3. So instead of continuing to fumble along confusing my dog and getting angry, I really learn what I need to be the leader in my dogs life. To guide and show them in a calm and CLEAR manner. If my dogs are doing something wrong, and continue doing it wrong, then I am NOT showing them the right path and need to try something completely different.

Only AFTER a ton of classes, and with the help and recommendations of my instructors would I then add an e-collar to my bag of tricks. That's my last resort for most training issues because when I DO train properly my dogs all learn without it.

You also sound like you may have a bored dog on your hands. So upping the exercise (I do about 10 miles, dog off leash, hiking in the woods PLUS chuck it for hours a week PLUS my dog in agility classes PLUS going out and about in the car and to socialize.... all to help my dog be the perfect dogs they are.)
 

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Quote:The thing with this dog is, she times it. She does it when she KNOWS I don't have the time to apply certain techniques.
Smart little thing. But you are making excuses as to why this behaviour has been allowed to happen and continue. I mean, nobody would think of making excuses about their dog not being housebroken, "because I didn't have time to keep taking her out". We structure our days and our life-styles to ensure that our dogs DO get the training they need in their early stages, whether it be housebreaking, jumping up, or inappropriate barking.

Does Della bark at other things, noises, etc, when you ARE around?

Because if she does, then you can start working on a "quiet" command. Just yelling, as many people have found out, means nothing to them. Giving a specific command with a specific action associated with it does mean something to a dog that has been taught to associate a command with a specific action.

I taught Keeta the "quiet" command by holding her muzzle shut and praising and rewarding like crazy when she was quiet. Of course, at first, they have no choice but to stop barking if their muzzle is being held shut, and it takes a while before they make the association between the barking and the word.

You progress from holding the muzzle shut, say quiet, and reward, to :

Hold muzzle shut, let go for a second, say "quiet" and reward! yeah!

Hold muzzle shut, let go, say quiet, wait THREE seconds, gradually more time, reward with lots of praise, petting, positive attention for being QUIET.

Be ready to drop everything and anything to re-inforce the quiet command, even walking away from phone calls, meal preparation, whatever, and I even got up out of bed at night to re-inforce and reward the "quiet".

After a while, you don't need to hold the muzzle shut, but you still need to be there physically to re-inforce the command and hold the muzzle in case your dog is blowing you off.

This took about two months of constant, concentrated, consistant effort, but I now have a dog that quiets on command, no matter the circumstance or situation. I see it as house-breaking: a lot of work initially to set up positive and reliable behaviours for long-term benefits.

Now, if she ONLY barks when you are out of sight, and stops as soon as she hears you walking towards her, that would be a bit tricky. What if she hears you walking towards her, and she stops, and you start walking away again?

With Keeta, I set up situations where she thought I wouldn't be able to do anything, and surprised her by showing up anyways! Like she learned that she could bark when I was in the shower.
So, I gave myself EXTRA TIME, and pretended that I was taking a shower, ran the shower and everything, waited for her to bark, and lo and behold! Here I am, enforcing a "quiet" command!

If you know that you won't have time to work on teaching and re-inforcing, then get Della to come with you, have her in the bathroom with you, crate her for a sec, and so on.

As I was saying in my examples, it didn't matter what I was doing, where I was in the house, (even in bed!), whether I had time or not, I would rush to her as soon as she started barking at something, and go through the "quiet" routine. I was never angry or punitive in my way of dealing with this, always matter of fact.

Della is still a baby, my focus would be to teach and shape behaviours, not use corrections.
 

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Originally Posted By: CarolynI don't intend to use this on ALL her training, just for instances where I need to "keep her in check" at a distance.
Based on this comment and some that you made earlier, I'd suggest a bark collar rather than an Ecollar. Unless you're wiling to spend some time in learning how to use the Ecollar I'd recommend against you getting one. The bark collar is less expensive and its timing is perfect.

But as Maggie said, just doing some OB training may stop her barking. Other posters have recommended teaching the bark on command and then a "quiet." That's another way to go and is certainly less expensive than purchasing an Ecollar.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Jean,

I tried using a pot - to break the behavior and then praising her when she was quiet. That didn't work. She would start barking with the pot.

I am not making excuses for my training her. I am just saying she times it. It is amazing to watch a dog maneuver.

By the way, I realize that some of this also due to her "adolescence". I know she is still a baby - but she needs to obey the rules.


She is a confident and friendly girl. She just sounds like a 100+ pound male dog.

I have ignored the behavior and that did work. The breaking the behavior woks sometimes. I try and compliment her when she is quiet.

I'll try some of these techniques and see what happens.

I DO want her to bark - just not in some of the instances she is choosing to bark.
 

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I tried using a pot - to break the behavior and then praising her when she was quiet. That didn't work. She would start barking with the pot.

quote]

pot?
 

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Discussion Starter #14
MaggieRoseLee said:
Quote: I tried using a pot - to break the behavior and then praising her when she was quiet. That didn't work. She would start barking with the pot.

quote]

pot?

Banging a pot with a spoon. It stops her from barking and when she stops, "Good quiet."

Where you thinking I was banging the dog with the pot? NEVER.
 

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Quote: Where you thinking I was banging the dog with the pot? NEVER.
I wasn't thinking that. You had me so entirely baffled I had no idea if you had made a typo or 'pot' was short for some training aid I wasn't aware of (potato?
)

I have found that JUST correcting for bad stuff is alot of work and doesn't always work out (so just banging on the pot when my dog is WRONG, each and everytime). Instead, I have more luck with teaching my dog to do something I WANT them to do to distract from the 'bad' and earn treats/hugs/praise!

So if my dog was barking and I called their name, they came, and I gave her a peice of chicken................. What a good girl she is. Good 'come'. So I didn't have to deal with the 'negative' 'and the bad behavior. Instead I replaced it with something I did want. Benefit is EXACTLY what I wanted as a final outcome, the barking is over cause she's no longer out in the yard but right with me eating the chicken like the good girl she is.

Alot of why I go to tons of dog classes is they teach me a new way to train. NOT just about fixing all the bad stuff and unwanted behaviors (cause my dog is always in trouble and wrong wrong wrong). But INSTEAD making me get off my lazy mental training butt and come up with a plan and ideas to be PROACTIVE and come up with different behaviors to make my dog right right right.

If I'm always waiting for my dog to be 'wrong' and then react, I'm always then behind in the training game and working off my dog to cue for the training session. With a plan in place we can work on it before my dog's barking to practice, (the 'come' with the chicken thing) and then when my dog DOES have the first bark come out of her mouth I'm absolutely ready with my plan (and the chicken) in place.

Alot of barking and other unwanted behaviors come from boredom in our dogs. So I also really plan our walks, socialization, dog classes, hikes, visiting friends, teaching tricks......... so my bond with my dog is so much stronger so they DO listen and learn and think they are almost always brilliant (rather than always bad with me running after them banging a pot
)
 

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MaggieRoseLee said:
Quote:

Alot of why I go to tons of dog classes is they teach me a new way to train. NOT just about fixing all the bad stuff and unwanted behaviors (cause my dog is always in trouble and wrong wrong wrong). But INSTEAD making me get off my lazy mental training butt and come up with a plan and ideas to be PROACTIVE and come up with different behaviors to make my dog right right right.

If I'm always waiting for my dog to be 'wrong' and then react, I'm always then behind in the training game and working off my dog to cue for the training session. With a plan in place we can work on it before my dog's barking to practice, (the 'come' with the chicken thing) and then when my dog DOES have the first bark come out of her mouth I'm absolutely ready with my plan (and the chicken) in place.
Hi Maggie, My trainer says this Exactly!!! That is the one thing he drills, catch her doing something right, watch for it, praise her, let her know she is so smart. I didnt even realize, but we do have a tendency (human nature I think) to notice the bad, and overlook the good. I am learning to watch for the good and ignore the bad. I dont mean to say that if my dog is jumping on people or taking a sandwich from a kid I'm not going to do anything. BUT if I notice her looking at that sandwich, I can redirect her then....same concept I think.
 

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Quote: I dont mean to say that if my dog is jumping on people or taking a sandwich from a kid I'm not going to do anything. BUT if I notice her looking at that sandwich, I can redirect her then....same concept I think.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Hi guys,

I agree with you.

I've been praising her when she is quiet.

As I said, this is a LAST RESORT.

As for the pot, it could be hands, feet et cetera. Something to interrupt the behavior and then I praise her for being quiet. If I am busy working and she has to be crated I put on her leash and prong if she starts barking. Miracle of ALL miracles - I NEVER have to correct her.


The electric collar is a LAST RESORT. If I do purchase it and use it - I am sure it will only have to be ONCE.

Other things at play here: a very obnoxious neighbor. I will not go into details - lets just say I want to be proactive.

Thanks for everyone's responses.
 

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Originally Posted By: Carolyn The electric collar is a LAST RESORT. If I do purchase it and use it - I am sure it will only have to be ONCE.
I hope you mean that you'll only have to do the training once. I hope you don't mean that you'll only have to press the button once.
 

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Originally Posted By: LouCastle
Originally Posted By: Carolyn The electric collar is a LAST RESORT. If I do purchase it and use it - I am sure it will only have to be ONCE.
I hope you mean that you'll only have to do the training once. I hope you don't mean that you'll only have to press the button once.
I'm a bit concerned with this one as well. If you are concerned about using an e-collar, you shouldnt use it at all. If used correctly and for the right reasons and you are consistant, just like any other training method it could be a wonderful tool for you. If done correctly, it does not harm, but is more like a tap on the shoulder...."Hey, I'm speaking to you, listen up"

I understand your concerns completely, I would have been horified at the thought of using an e-collar (i.e. shock collar) a year ago, based only on rumor and horror stories...My little girl will be 2 in June...She has been an absolute joy, BUT has been the challenge of a lifetime. My previous two shepherds would have jumped to do my bidding at any time......they seemed to read my mind......very little effort...they just did everything perfectly...Now for my Ava girl, what a shock.....she is smart, stubborn, fearless, curious......I could go on, sounds like a dream right? LOL, yeah, be careful what you wish for.......I have been through every training device known to mankind....purely positive.....clilckers, halters, prongs, gentle leaders.....the list goes on......I finally found a trainer that knew what my girl needed (by the way, this trainer also trains with all tools, and uses only what the dog needs, if that is treats, that is what is used). We learned how to use an e-collar....now the reason this works for me....is it allows me to be consisitant......

One of the key things every trainer wether purely positive or whatever has said to me over the years is "Never give a command you cannot enforce". If I have my girls attention, she knows what to do......that was the key. So, now I have a dog that has very good recall (we are still working in high distraction areas). She heals, sits, down, stays, all on MY direction, not whether she feels like it or not. No more flipping me the paw. And ALL without hurting her, no harsh leash correction, no sores from pulling at a harness, no pulling through a gentle leader, no yelling to get her attention, I "tap" and she looks for her next direction. I would NEVER do anything to cause my girl pain. I have worn the collar myself. When I set it to the right level, all she does is flick her ear, that is it.

Of course this is my experience only, but I wanted you to know, an e-collar can be useful, but it needs be used consistantly. I put it on her in the morning.....whether I plan on using it or not (I have been working with it for almost 2 months now). We take it off at night, I check it all day long to make sure it is on correctly and the setting is at it's working level. For me it has been a life saver and my dog's and my relationship has grown 500%. If you choose to use an e-collar, find someone to help you put it on correctly and find the working level of the dog (dont be fooled though, the working level can change with the hour). Otherwise, like Lou said earlier, a bark collar would be a better option for you because the timing is perfect for barking.

I hope you find a solution, I certainly know how frustrating it is to try to correct a behavior that is resistant to everything I had tried.

Good Luck!!!
 
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