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Discussion Starter #1
Hunter is now 8 months 3 weeks, Our last class of Advance puppy will be next Monday. It wont be until Jan unitl I will have a CGC class to get in to. I plan on doing all of my training daily until the time comes where we will officially learn more, but I am wondering about a EC to practice long distance sits and downs. As of right now, If I ask him to sit from a distance, he runs to me to sit. ( he is such a good dog, most of the time:halogsd:)

Any thoughts?
 

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Are you talking about doing stays and then leaving your dog or are you asking your dog to do a sit or down from a distance. If it's the second one, you are asking way too much from a puppy.
 

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i personally dont like electric collars but if you insist on using one stick it on your skin first and zap yourself if you still want to use it then i guess it wouldnt be to harmful to the dog! i dont mean that to sound mean just as a way of testing what your doing to him first.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Are you talking about doing stays and then leaving your dog or are you asking your dog to do a sit or down from a distance. If it's the second one, you are asking way too much from a puppy.
Yes, that was the intention, also to make the comes from long distance less of a game to him. But thank you, I will most likely then only use it for the comes.

i personally dont like electric collars but if you insist on using one stick it on your skin first and zap yourself if you still want to use it then i guess it wouldnt be to harmful to the dog! i dont mean that to sound mean just as a way of testing what your doing to him first.
:laugh:

I have.. I did this with those bark collars as well as the traing collars. I Promise, I will not bark more then twice while wearing the barking collar ever again..

I understand your comment, and I dont know really know how to reply.. I will start with, I LOVE MY DOG VERY MUCH. It is VERY improtant for me to know that I can sit, down, or have my dog come with out hesistance for reasons of his safety. If I could get a training collar or pinch collar to work on him from accross the street, I would be all for that. But the likely hood of that is very weak. So, I am going to utilize any and every tool I can to make sure that I have a pup that will listen.
 

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I never used an e collar for this. I have back tied the dog and slowly slowly worked on getting some distance. When tied, they could not run to me. A big reminder to you on this one.... To your pup this is a totally new exercise. They learn at first that "sit" means to sit near us. Go slowly in your gradually moving away. Be sure and mark or click right as he sits because you will have to take amoment to get back to him with reward
 

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i understand wanting/NEEDING your pups to listen and the importance of that have you tried clicker training its pretty amazing for my chloe so far.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Up front I would like to say.. ANYONES question or comment is welcome, and I hope that at no point I will demonstrate other, I am on this forum for advice and suggestions. I do believe the best commet I have read on this forum though was " the only 1 thing 2 GSD owners will agree on is that the third one is wrong".

Samba, That is a Very cool idea, I like that alot.. and will start this imediately in the yard.

seyfertc, I have heard many great things about clickers, and have yet to see one sold anywhere. I have been using "yes" instead of a clicker. With the food reward imediately after. I have been told by my trainer that this is similiar to the clicker, and should work.
 

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How are you going to use the e-collar to enforce the sit from a distance?

Your puppy has yet learned that sit means sit where ever s/he is so it would be unfair of you to correct him from coming to you to sit. Add in the fact that you don't want him to think he is being corrected from coming over to you then you'll have to retrain the recall.

Samba had some good advice to gradually increase your distance from the dog when telling him to sit and use the e-collar down the road when you are sure he knows what you mean.
 

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I just went through the CGC for my dog. She is 18 months old and she did pass the test. The way I taught her the down command and stay was to use a ball as her reward since she has such a huge ball drive. Have you used her favorite toy to help her understand the down/stay. For the CGC you will be next to your dog when you put her in a down/stay. You then walk away the 20 ft and immediately return to your dog. The other part is that you put your dog in a down/stay and you walk away the 20 ft and immediately recall your dog. I've thought about using an e-collar for training as well...but I'm trying the reward system first. I feel the same way you do about having a dog that listens to commands and is reliable all the time with those commands.

You can also start on the close sits and stays...then take a couple of steps back and have her sit/stay. When she gets good with that...take a couple of more steps back, etc until she is good with those and so on.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
How are you going to use the e-collar to enforce the sit from a distance?

Your puppy has yet learned that sit means sit where ever s/he is so it would be unfair of you to correct him from coming to you to sit. Add in the fact that you don't want him to think he is being corrected from coming over to you then you'll have to retrain the recall.

Samba had some good advice to gradually increase your distance from the dog when telling him to sit and use the e-collar down the road when you are sure he knows what you mean.
I am pretty sure that you and I are on the same page, but I will start with EC up close, then work my way out, I dont want the EC to be a big shock and scare the heck out of him and have him run off, although I dont believe that would be the result, I would want him right next to me when it happens. then work the distance

I just went through the CGC for my dog. She is 18 months old and she did pass the test. The way I taught her the down command and stay was to use a ball as her reward since she has such a huge ball drive. Have you used her favorite toy to help her understand the down/stay. For the CGC you will be next to your dog when you put her in a down/stay. You then walk away the 20 ft and immediately return to your dog. The other part is that you put your dog in a down/stay and you walk away the 20 ft and immediately recall your dog. I've thought about using an e-collar for training as well...but I'm trying the reward system first. I feel the same way you do about having a dog that listens to commands and is reliable all the time with those commands.

You can also start on the close sits and stays...then take a couple of steps back and have her sit/stay. When she gets good with that...take a couple of more steps back, etc until she is good with those and so on.
Our class now does this, the trainers also toss balls, bang doors, clap hands, walk around our pups, reach down and touch them, I have only had Hunter "break" once, and although it is not for sure, he was real distracted, the trainers female was in heat. He was always watching the trainer.
 

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I am still not sure the EC is going to get you the distance you desire. I have found preventing the dog from being able to get to me much more effective. I don't mind the correct use of an e collar at all. I am just trying to think about this particular exercise.
 

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I thought an EC is considered as a last resort?
What about using 2 people to work on this- someone with the dog to prevent him from moving and you at a distance giving the command?
What command do you use to stop him from doing something else you don't like from a distance? Like across the yard digging-do you say "no" or "eh eh"? When he is at a distance and you say "sit" and he walks toward you do you say "no" or "eh eh" to redirect?
I guess what I am asking is what have you already tried?
 

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Oh, no EC is not considered a "last resort" type of tool always. It can be utilized very well for basic training if the correct mode and method are employed. It is not to shock the dog, if that is what you are thinking.
 

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The biggest thing I have discovered with my dog, is make sure you get a good collar, with very tiny increments. I use a Dogtra 1900NC, and my girl's working level is a 3-6 (depending on the day) out of 127! I can't feel anything until about a 10, so I can guarantee that if I had bought a cheap collar with not very many increments, it would have been way too high, and would have done more harm than good.
 

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I have been using "yes" instead of a clicker. With the food reward imediately after. I have been told by my trainer that this is similiar to the clicker, and should work.
Here's what my new trainer told me...

Use Yes as a marker because you should always have your voice. You can't carry a clicker in a trial.

"The clicker is the most powerful tool in training". Be sure you know what you are doing and to reinforce at precisely the right time.


My opinion....
As far as the e-collar...if it's at the right setting then it's no more than a buzz. If you are frying your dog then you need to put it back in the box and take ti back to the store. The setting that a fostered doberman needed was so low that I couldn't even feel it on my arm.

However, If you correct him at a distance, he might come back to you anyways because it's something weird and he'll want to run to you for reassurance.
 

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"yes" the word can mark well. I have found a clicker very useful for improving dog owner's timing. There is even some evidence that it may affect the dog's brain in a way that is helpful in training, but that needs more research. It is umemotional and fast; and I have found it more effective than my voice in the beginning stages of training when I have to quickly capture the "picture".
 

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Discussion Starter #18
With the help of this group, as well as using my brothers guidance (K-9 officer) I HOPE to come out of this the right way. I agree with the setting being very low, but again, I will need to see how Hunter responds.

I thank all of you for your suggestions, and have already started with Hunter tied off behind himself, if front of me and it seems to do well. What I did is took my 30' lead and wrapped it through the fence and back to hunter. It wasn't a great correction, but today it didn't need to, he did real well, today at least.
 

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E collar or not, you will still need to work through gradual increases in distance to get the overall desired effect. The E collar is a tool just like a regural collar or a treat. It won't magically make your dog sit at a hundred feet away. You will start with a foot, then add one more, then add two more, etc. It's your preference on what type of reinforcer you use (positive/negative. The method of training, however, will be the same.
 

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However, If you correct him at a distance, he might come back to you anyways because it's something weird and he'll want to run to you for reassurance.
Especially if you're going to use the e-collar for recall training, where you WANT the dog to run to you.
 
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