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So looking into ecollars again I'm really struggling with the methodology. I don't like the training methods I'm hearing/reading about, for example stimming your dog until they follow the command. Negative reinforcement is not what I'm wanting.

I'd prefer to train my dog (9 months) old without using the ecollar as much as possible. He's offleash the majority of the time and has a decent recall and I can stop him from chasing deer verbally. However the one thing I am thinking of using it for is two behaviors that could actually have some negative effects on him at least disease wise. Those being catching/killing moles and eating deer poop.

I can't just put him on a leash and extinguish those behaviors, he'd pretty obviously go right back to it as soon as he was offleash. I've gotten better at noticing when he's about to catch a mole but the problem is sometime he just ducks his head right down into the snow and can snatch one up. Same with deer poop. Also his before poop sniffing behaviors looks extremely similar to I heard a mole behaviors and deer poop is sitting on top of the snow so he can snatch it up on a run by.

So what I'm considering is ecollar to help correct those behaviors. I think with him even a beep may be enough although the collar doesn't have a beep so maybe the vibrate function. But the training methods I'm reading about are using it in a vastly different method than what I want, and I don't trust the trainers in the area that I know of. Lots of gimmicky positive only, one trainer that is pretty insistent that one method works on all dogs. My guy is pretty soft and would definitely not be able to handle that guys training methods. So I'm pretty much out of luck on working with a trainer.

But the methods I'm finding online I don't really agree with but I certainly don't want to use it incorrectly.

My thought process was acclimate him to wearing the collar. Then find his working level. After that I have no clue though which is what I was reading up on to make sure I used it correctly, but am struggling finding good info on not using it for all training. I keep getting linked back to articles on using it for everyday training.

Because it seems like you have 2 options in my brain, but could be neither of them are correct. (I thought of a 3rd and then lost my train of thought.)

A. Shock him as soon as he tries to eat any poop or hunt moles. (The theory of teaching that certain behaviors have bad consequences. Not sure how good this is)

B. Say ah-ah and then back up with a shock if he continues. (Adding a punishment, would he relate the shock to ah-ah and expect it every time I said ah-ah? He in every other behavior needs nothing more than an ah-ah and it does sometimes work for the mole hunting but he'll go back to it once he hears one.)

I've been trying to give him outlets for example I've been working on teaching him to shed hunt. However for example today while playing fetch I thought he had to poop but really he just smelled deer poop and went to eat it, or maybe he did have to poo and just stumbled across poo. He'll happily run back to me when I get after him for eating it whatever poo he doesn't swallow flying out of his mouth. But it doesn't stop him from seeking it out which I've been working on correcting before he finds any but isn't working so well since it's just so randomly placed. On our morning walk I was doing good stopping him when he smelled moles and attempting to hunt him. But then there must have been one on the trail or not very deep in the snow and he snatched it up. (He kills and then carries them around in his mouth and I have to get him to spit them out...) The deer poop has been a several months thing and the mole thing only started up in say the past 2 weeks but he's gotten very good at it very quickly. At first it was cute (I know, I know) because he'd just bury his head in the snow but I never imagined he'd actually start catching them.

I'm pretty sure with consistency I could get these behaviors under wraps but what I'm worried about is the disease/parasite risk and so a faster option is preferable. I'll probably be keeping him on a leash for awhile until I am ready to use the ecollar if that's the route I go with.
 

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B is my method of choice.That said,your dog is only doing natural behaviors that my dogs do at every opportunity.They get diatomaceous earth daily which prevents parasites.If I was concerned about poisoned or diseased vermin that would be of concern of course,but it's not an issue around here.
Just my two cents.We all have different perspectives and feelings about what's best to keep our doggos safe and happy.:)
 

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B is my method of choice.That said,your dog is only doing natural behaviors that my dogs do at every opportunity.They get diatomaceous earth daily which prevents parasites.If I was concerned about poisoned or diseased vermin that would be of concern of course,but it's not an issue around here.
Just my two cents.We all have different perspectives and feelings about what's best to keep our doggos safe and happy.:)
Thanks for your input! How did you introduce it to your dog? I'm really not wanting to do some of the ways I've read on how you're supposed to start them out.

I do know they're normal dog behaviors but they aren't ones that I want to encourage or allow for reasons stated above.
Also I personally don't allow my dogs to kill or chase other animals regardless of the species. Only living thing they're allowed to chase are other dogs during playtime. That said it probably wouldn't bother me as much if he wouldn't eat the moles afterwards, if he just killed them and was done as one dog I had when I was younger did with mice. If she saw one she'd focus in and just bam kill it and then was done with it wouldn't give it a second look.

Diatomaceous earth definitely has a lot of controversy around it. The studies done on internal parasites that I've read didn't show any benefit although they certainly help with external parasites. I've heard from a friend who worked in a vet office of dogs still having to come in and be treated for worms despite being fed diatomaceous earth. I looked into it and asked around when I was thinking of using it on some of the feral cats I was relocating. How diatomaceous earth works externally is it absorbs the water from the insects and dries them out. It can't really do that in the digestive tract. So the theory is the sharp edges, but if it did have sharp edges that was killing parasites wouldn't you think that would harm the digestive tract itself? I personally have never really had issues in parasites with my dogs other than one that we adopted/puppies and my dogs at home never got regularly de-wormed. So in some cases I wouldn't trust any statements of we fed our dog DE and it never got worms, simply because I haven't had issues with worms doing nothing with my dogs and there are a lot of factors going into getting parasites, such as rodent eating. ?
 

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I used to have a really good link that I would share that has excellent detailed instructions about introducing and using an ecollar.But I lost the darned thing!Anyways,I let him wear it for a couple of weeks during the day to get used to it,not tight against his neck though or you'd have to reposition it often.Step 2 is get it snug so the prongs make contact with skin,high up on the neck,with the prongs on the side of neck.Find the working level(instructions with collar).Some dogs will respond well to a tone or vibration warning(mine won't) that stim will follow if they don't cease immediately or ignore your command.The tone of vibration can be used along with the "eh eh!".

I use the mini educator so it's set for his working level and the second button is set five levels higher (for emergencies).Very low at 8 and 13 for him.It's like a little burst of static,not painful,but it startles.I practiced with the power for a couple of days to get comfortable with it myself and get my timing perfect.I only stimmed him twice and never had need again for the past four years,so it worked well for us.
The D earth was recommended by my vet.It's commonly used as an additive for livestock,chickens,goats,cows,etc.I was concerned about it slicing up the intestinal tract too but he explained that the food grade earth is so super fine that it passes through with no issues.Just for me personally I like taking a preventive measure rather than using meds often.No I'm not a shill or selling stock in a D earth company!:LOL:
 

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B. Say ah-ah and then back up with a shock if he continues. (Adding a punishment, would he relate the shock to ah-ah and expect it every time I said ah-ah? He in every other behavior needs nothing more than an ah-ah and it does sometimes work for the mole hunting but he'll go back to it once he hears one.)
Get him used to wearing the collar when you go out off leash first. Don't worry about any corrections, just make him associate the ecollar with outside off leash super-happy-fun-time. Once he's fairly excited about the collar going on, you're ready to start priming.

You do need to prime the stim, beep, or vibration with "No" or "Ah-ah" first. That way, the collar sensation becomes the same as a verbal correction only silent and potentially from a great distance. Whatever level he works best with is what you'll use most of the time. The higher levels of stim equate to increased danger (running towards a street), increased urgency (chasing a deer), or failure to respond to normal working levels (and that you step up one at a time).

For what it's worth, Jack responds to level 1 out of 8. Level 1 when placed on my palm feels like a weird tingle and isn't even close to the intensity of a shock you get when touching a metal object in dry weather. It's more a disturbing sensation to him than it is painful.
 

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Option A is really hard to do correctly since you have to catch him as soon as he begins hunting. I used the collar for recall and outing. Outing works the same as b, but the sim follows immediately without delay. Recall is the way you said you don’t want as my to do.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Option A is really hard to do correctly since you have to catch him as soon as he begins hunting. I used the collar for recall and outing. Outing works the same as b, but the sim follows immediately without delay. Recall is the way you said you don’t want as my to do.
I think option A would be more effective with the eating deer poop or other behaviors besides the hunting. And I want to keep recall positive, he has a pretty decent one now. I can recall him off of running cats and deer. It's just moles mostly that he struggles with and snagging some deer poop before he runs back to me.


Get him used to wearing the collar when you go out off leash first. Don't worry about any corrections, just make him associate the ecollar with outside off leash super-happy-fun-time. Once he's fairly excited about the collar going on, you're ready to start priming.

You do need to prime the stim, beep, or vibration with "No" or "Ah-ah" first. That way, the collar sensation becomes the same as a verbal correction only silent and potentially from a great distance. Whatever level he works best with is what you'll use most of the time. The higher levels of stim equate to increased danger (running towards a street), increased urgency (chasing a deer), or failure to respond to normal working levels (and that you step up one at a time).

For what it's worth, Jack responds to level 1 out of 8. Level 1 when placed on my palm feels like a weird tingle and isn't even close to the intensity of a shock you get when touching a metal object in dry weather. It's more a disturbing sensation to him than it is painful.
I'm working on getting him used to the collar first. I'd really rather not have a collar smart dog. That's more trouble than it's worth and if anything backfires!

But thank you that is helpful advice and an idea of how to start with it. The past couple days I've been running him in a different area with no deer poo or moles and that has been a nice change of pace!
 
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