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Discussion Starter #1
Which method/trainer do you agree with?
Lou Castle
Fred Hassen
Ed Frawley
Or other and why...
 

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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks, that falls in line of training I have looked into.

Makes sense.

Do you use this method?
 

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I've been to a Fred Hassen seminar and would never train a dog with him. He's too heavy handed on the button.
 

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Originally Posted By: zypThanks, that falls in line of training I have looked into.

Makes sense.

Do you use this method?
I use the Dodd/Woodward method, think is similiar to Lou Castles..
 

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I like Lou's approach to the e-collar. I attended two seminars with Jim Dodd years ago and swore I would never put an e-collar on a dog after that. Hopefully he has changed his methods. I have not seen Ed's video nor attended a Hassen seminar though do not like what I have heard.
 

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My method is mostly positive reinforcement, clicker style. The e-collar is one more aspect in training (although, as I said before, it's the one thing that gets her off-leash in the woods).
I use the Dobb's/Lou Castle with the e-collar, but only for a few commands, come, leave-it. IE. start with the escape training so the dog learns they can turn the collar off.
I had to go very easy on this as she'd been hyper sensitized to the collar by a very bad demo.
I had a trainer send my dog crawling up the leash at him. I've never seen anything so horrible, and he never admitted his mistake (in hindsight, I realize he tried to find her 'working level' under a high distraction/stress situation). Did my own training after a month of
'thinking' time.

Thanks Maggie for the Dobb's page. It's short and concise, bookmarked now.

Ooops, forgot the "why" part. The escape training teaches the dog that even if the stim happens 'out of the blue' that they can control the duration and 'turn it off'. If you hit the button by accident, they'll likely just 'do something' to 'turn it off'. Also, they won't feel helpless during training, but will be active participants. If the dog is upset during training, the stim is too high, or you're grumpy, or the dog had previous e-collar experience at high levels (like the bad demo I described, or sometimes invisible fence training).
 

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Ed Frawley does not use escape training, and his reasoning makes sense to me. Using a nick as a correction after giving a command, followed by "no" let's the dog understand that it is your vocal command that must be followed, and if it is not the correction will come. This allows the dog to beat the correction, and makes it easier to ween off of the stimulations (the dog just thinks he has beat the correction whenever there isn't one). Acclimation to the collar is critical I think for this, so the dog does not become "collar wise".

I'm saying all this without yet beginning to use the collar - so take it for what it's worth (no experience). But that is my intended approach. I will concede that others here make good points. Ultimately, one must choose a method and begin, and I think I like Frawley's concepts best.
 

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I can't respond the original question, since I've not seen the Ed Frawley DVD to make an opinion, only read articles in his website. So far Lou Castle website has been my main source of information.

But as a comment aside, I love to see how people can have an adult discuss about e-collar with information that is useful (I already learnt something about the escape training) without falling into a "all e-collar users deserve to go to ****". I think this is the first time I see one in a public board.

So if this comment brings people who want to say how evil is the tool, please open other thread and keep this one for those of us who want to want to learn how to use it better and no need to be convinced we shouldn't use it in the first place.
 

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I haven't used e-collar training, but I foresee its place in our training some time down the road. I am relatively familar with Ed Frawley's method of using it, since I have several of his DVDs and read his articles. I like how it is utilized in training, and am saving up to purchase an e-collar from his site.

And I totally agree with LicanAntai, and that e-collars are not cruel when introduced and used properly.

Will look into the other trainers too ... Great question.
 

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Just a heads up for the best place I've found to buy e-collars at a better price. The re-conditioned collars at http://collarclinic.com/

I've purchased 3 collars over the years from their site, all re-conditioned, all in their original boxes with original paperwork and that worked well.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
is either used
1. as correction when command isn't obeyed..
or
2. as a simultaneous low stim with command?

I've never seen a Hassen seminar, but talked to a Sit Means Sit trainer and he uses low stim with command. Followed by praise for compliance.

Idea is the same in all training in that repetition and consistency will set pattern and eventually enable the dog to graduate from stim leaving collar only on for that unforeseen necessity.

Is that right?
 
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