Originally Posted By: mikaK9One is regarding when I reach the stage where my dog understands the recall and the e-collar correction for failing the recall in a backyard type setting. If my dog is highly distracted and fails the recall even with me pushing the constant on the e-collar (which from what I understand means that it might need to be turned up just a little), would I continue keeping the constant correction on as I go to the dog and then let go once I get ahold of the dog (and then turn up the level of stim for the next time)?
Reading ahead I see that you've ready my articles and are using my methods. The answer is "Yes, you'd increase the stim level." Do so a little at a time until you see some response from the dog. It may be that he recalls or just an ear flick. As soon as he turns away from the distraction, take your finger off the button. I'd stay at the same level (his working level, where he first feels the stim when at rest) unless you see that it loses its effect. If that happens go up slightly. If you see the distraction present increase the stim a little in anticipation of him needing a slightly higher level at to catch up to his level of distraction.
Originally Posted By: mikaK9 Then the second question would be similar, but in a police trial bitework setting. If my dog runs after the decoy and fails to recall, should I hold the constant button down, even while my dog is on the sleeve and until I can get to him?
There's no need to "get to him." I suggest that you use the recall command and stay back. With most dogs that have been through conventional training, when you approach, they anticipate the out and bite harder. Some will "get growly." Some will spin around to the other side of the decoy, so you can't get to the leash to correct him. With the Ecollar and the recall command, there's no need to. Stand back, give the command at the same time that you press the button and wait for him to come to you. If he doesn't then increase the stim level a bit until you see that he's feeling it.
If he fights this, let me know and I'll give you another method that I can just about guarantee will work with him.
Originally Posted By: mikaK9 I guess that raises a third question for me. When my dog is doing well on recalls in the backyard setting, even under intense distractions, and I move to using it in a trial bitework setting......should I have him on a long line to start with all over again?
Once he's working well on the recall from the bite you can start giving him other commands off the bite, the down or the sit. You can recall him, let him come back a few feet and send him for another bite or you can down him, or anything else that you want.
Originally Posted By: TracieI was trained never ever to put the stimulation box on the back of the neck.
What reason were you given for this? I do it sometimes. Usually when teaching the down.
Originally Posted By: Tracie I was taught to use the nick button (and verbal command) for every command that I gave the dog, not just the command that the dog failed to perform.
At some point you want to stop giving the stim with the command. If for no other reason than sometimes you may not have the Ecollar on the dog or it might not work. My experience with this has been that if you constantly give the stim with the command, and never vary from this, the stim "becomes part of the command." And if, for any reason, you don't give the stim the dog won't obey. It's not that he's disobeying it's that the stim has become "part of the picture" and the dog thinks it's part of the situation. As we know, if a situation changes, the dog may not obey. The context has changed and dogs are contextual learners.
Originally Posted By: mikaK9 And I've read the articles on Lou Castle's website. It's great info and that's exactly what I'm going off of. Maybe I missed something that would answer these questions, but I didn't think so, since they're kind of specific.
You didn't miss anything there Mika, it's just that the articles were mostly written in a general sort of way so that anyone, a police dog handler, a SAR dog handler or a pet owner, could use them. I didn't get too specific to give the articles broader appeal.
Originally Posted By: mikaK9I'm just anticipating that this specific dog will need to have the level of stim turned up a bit with specific higher distractions.
Most dogs will need higher levels when they're distracted.
Originally Posted By: mikaK9This is mostly based on the levels of correction he takes from me on a pinch collar.
There's no connection between how a dog responds to a pinch collar (or any other correction device for that matter) and how he'll respond to stim; but any dog who's distracted will need a higher level of stim because he won't feel the basic working level.
Originally Posted By: mikaK9but all the corrections in the world on a pinch collar don't seem to be getting me anywhere with higher distractions.
Using higher and higher levels of physical corrections (those that come from a leash and correction collar) will cause all sorts of conflict that will cause problems down the road.
I saw that Lou had checked this site and was hoping he might answer too......maybe I'll take the advice of emailing him directly and get his thoughts.
If anyone has a question feel free to email me privately. I prefer to answer these questions on the forum though, so that other people can give their advice. I don't have all the answers and can learn, just like everyone else. If I don't jump in to the thread fairly quickly (a few days) just drop me an email and let me know that the discussion is going on. BTW that's how I got here today.
Originally Posted By: TracieIn the mean time, try to stop chasing him. By chasing him, your playing a game on his terms when he should be obeying on your terms. Try letting him drag a long line or long leash at all times. Call him to you using stim and use of the leash to pull him to you until he comes in readily without use of the leash/long line.
Originally Posted By: TracieAs your calling him in, continue use of stim (push the button much like you would as if using a bic lighter) and your recall command (come or whatever) until he is all the way in to you. Once he comes all the way in, stop stimulation and praise heck out of him.
Stimming a dog all the way in is really an advanced technique for me. I prefer to just give a continuous stim until he turns and starts towards me. Then I get off the button. Only when he's doing this very well will I give a stim all the way in. And I only do that once in a while.